Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Check out the FAQs from Ferrari of Denver

(continued)

On Apr 5, 2007, at 7:43 PM, Dennis Liu wrote:
<can't...restrain...myself...>
Tell me, Rob, or Tom.
Why is it "greedy" for a dealer to sell a new Ferrari for whatever  
people

will pay for it?

Because that is what is destroying our country, for example:

Bad
Ford CEO $28,000,000 for fours months pay
Ford lost 9 billion 1st quarter
14 plants closing
major layoffs
Good

Toyota building plants in US and employing thousands of workers

with high paying jobs with benifits Why would they do this if they  
could build them cheaper some where else?  The answer is

if americans dont have jobs who is going to buy their product,  
something the big 3 is learnig the hard way. So they are being good

businessmen and good corporate citizens also
Bad

Bill Gates richest man in world wants unlimited V- 1B foreign workers  
so he can pay them less than his american employees,

even though he is the richest man in the world! What a jerk. I must  
admit here I have a Mac.
Good
???
Not many stories here

Let me ask this question - assume that Ferrari did not announce any  
prices.

No MSRP.

But why do they??????

Instead, Ferrari allowed each dealer to sell their allocations at  
whatever

the market would bear.  Say that each dealer, when it received a  
car, would

auction it off.

Isnt that what they are doing anyway in an underhanded way?

Would that be greedy?
Do you really think that the dealer ought to be obligated to sell  
their

precious few allocated new Ferraris to any guy off the street, and  
then that

lucky guy can auction it off and keep the $50k difference?  Why  
should that

$50k NOT go to th dealer?  Is it some inherent right of the guy off  
the

street?

I still think its  wrong, and bad business in the long run. Lets say  
you piss off you best customer and someday all the rich  dont want  
Ferraris anymore as they

all want muscle cars, and never were true tifosi anyway?

Ah, might you say, did that guy "earn" that right by getting on a  
list?  So,

simply by virtue of waiting a few years, I've *earned* the right to  
the $50k

profit, instead of the dealer?

Ive known guys on the list for 4 years just to be bumped off for no  
reason, so the dealer could give it to a friend who could sell it  
back to them so that they could resale it...
I have no problem with a list, that is fair

Please.  Stop the hypocrisy.  When we have an asset to sell,  
whether it's a

car, a house, a guitar, an electric toothbrush, we want to obtain the

maximum price that people will pay.  Whether we sell it at auction  
or not,

if we have multiple parties that want to buy it, we'll sell it to  
the one

that will pay the most money (and don't kid yourself otherwise).

I agree but there is a limit to a reasonable profit in a "civilized  
society". before the banking industry was deregulated (which I think  
was wrong and which hopefully will change soon!) interest rates like  
the credit card companies are charging would land you in jail

Tom, if you were selling your house, listed it for $500k, and you  
woke up

and had five guys lined up outside your door that wanted to buy, do  
you take

$500k to the guy who happened to be first in line, or do you entertain

offers from all give guys?

They never said that you could buy it at any cost, they said you  
would probably not be able to get one, again why does Ferrari NA have  
a lsited price, and why do they make dealers stick to it, and

 why doesnt Ferrari charge what the market would seem to bear, if  
that is unlimited?
It is the same reason WALMART sucks and Eron ripped off "grandmas" in  
Califorina and Haliburton got a no bid contract, and the reason that  
we here in CA are paying .50 more per gallon for gas than most other  
states, even though we are one of the top oil producers......
Because greedy people will rip people off whenever they can if there  
is no law, or societal restraints that prevents them. Enzo Ferrari  
would be rolling in his grave!
I guess am just tired of being ripped off and lied to. At least they  
were being honest about being dishonest.
I have to agree with Clyde on this one
Rob
rant off, back to lurk mode :=)

So why the heck is that different from the Ferrari dealer?
Vty,
--Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Reynolds [mailto:kjtar [at] cox.net]
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 9:58 PM
To: Dennis Liu
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Check out the FAQs from Ferrari of Denver
Well, you know Rob, it's just the usual elitist snobbery.  I mean,  
I guess

there's a place for that (FoDenver, apparently) but it's just too  
bad people

have to be that petty.

Sympathetically,

Tom in Tulsa
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert W. Garven Jr." <rgarven [at] gmail.com>
To: "Tom Reynolds" <kjtar [at] cox.net>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Check out the FAQs from Ferrari of Denver
What they should say is:
We are too greedy to sell you a new Ferrari so we will sell it to our
best friend then he will sell it back to us and we will then sell you
a used ferrari for $50,000 over MSRP.
I think they sound like every Ferrari dealer is expected and frankly
very sad....... I wouldn't buy a sticker from them...
Rob

On Apr 4, 2007, at 9:44 PM, Dennis Liu wrote:
Awesome, just awesome Frequently Asked Questions section on the
Ferrari of
Denver website.  Just the right amount of obnoxiousness, mixed in
with a
whole lot of truth.  Bravo.
vty,
--Dennis
http://www.ferrariofdenver.com/faq.cfm
FAQ - Frequently Asked Questions

Q. What's better? Leasing or buying, or cash?

A. No simple answer, especially on high dollar purchases. Cash: ok,

but it

warrants NO discounts for the purchase ... cash has no advantage.

Leases &

Loans turn into immediate cash, so at the end of the day it's cash

anyhow.

At most dealerships, offering cash lessens profits, don't do the

old "how

much if I pay cash" routine, that actually works to your  
disadvantage.

Wiring bank to bank money transfers (nationally & internationally)

are the

only way to quickly and expediently transfer large sums to us.

Finance: we

can arrange any term financing (24-60 months is very common), even

with zero

dollars down if your credit & income is strong enough. Competitive

finance

rates come from Bentley Financial Services, Maserati Financial

Services and

JP Morgan Chase, plus others. We can even arrange financing for any

make,

model or year car that we sell. You'll need depth (equally high  
dollar

amount loans in the past), a good credit score & healthy income.

p.s. We

have no way of obtaining financing for marginal credit. Leasing:

How is it

different from financing? In its simplest terms: You're paying the

depreciation & interest monthly, and accounting for the disposition

of the

car (turning it in at the end) in advance. If you need tax

advantages as a

business or sole proprietor, leasing wins. Depreciation plus

interest makes

leasing tax deductable for most business applications (see your

CPA). Luxury

automobiles are the most logical to lease, and there is virtually

no upper

limit to eligible cost. Leasing also takes some of the sting out of

sales

taxes by taxing the monthly payment, not the entire purchase amount

(don't

confuse this with ownership taxes & fees for lic. plates, which you

still

have to pay). Conventional closed end leases (80% of our lease

business) and

several variations of open end leases (sometimes called simple

interest

leases) are available. Call for details on the difference, it can

be a big

surprise. Yes, leasing delivers the most car for your monthly

expenditure.

But... leasing is a commitment that is inflexible & therefore

costly to get

out of. Once you lease, it's yours till the end, or bring lots of

money to

pay off your remaining contractal obligation... that's pretty

simple; but no

one seems to get it. Principal is amortized slowly on a lease

because the

debt is never designed to go to zero; no one seems to understand  
that

either. You cannot easily trade in your leased car, because lease

debt is

structured completely different from a loan. But at the end of

every closed

end (conventional) lease, you turn in the old car & get a new one;

it's

painless and becomes the primary logic for leasing in the first

place: easy

and quick, always drive a new car. Leasing usually requires a

higher credit

score than most purchases. Tie your lease to your own trading

patterns &

mileage; If you normally trade after 18 months, don't put yourself

into a

5-year lease (yet people still do that every day too). Credit

challenged a

bit? We've even found a special leasing option for you, but still

requires

high documented income. Now, if you keep your car forever, don't

lease...conventional financing or cash is best. And we discourage

those 120

month finance plans for all the obvious reasons; if you need the  
lower

payment that bad, perhaps you're stretched a bit too thin already &

should

lower your sights. We can tailor almost any plan to your situation.

And the

answer to the most frequent finance question of all? No, you can't

put the

car on your credit card.... cards typically pay merchants with 96  
cent

dollars, & we won't do that for anyone.
Q. Is this the only franchised new car dealership for Ferrari,
Maserati,
Bentley and Lotus in Colorado? I see advertising from others that
claim they
are.
A. Yes. There is NO other franchised Ferrari, Maserati, Bentley or
Lotus new
car dealership in Colorado, And yes, we're aware that there are
folks out
there claiming to be. Wierd, huh?
Q. Should I buy new or pre-owned?

A. Depends on many factors..... Availability, price, condition, and

quality.

As an example, availability dictates that you're not geting a new

Ferrari.

However, Bentley, Maserati & Lotus cars are available in limited

numbers as

both new and pre-owned. Consider that advantages of factory  
Certified

Pre-Owned (CPO) available exclusively from franchised dealerships:

With CPO

extended warranties within our four franchised brands, it would

seem almost

foolish to overlook that huge benefit. Warranty like a new car, but

for less

$$ over all. Financing on CPO cars pretty much mirrors new car

rates, so the

savings often make the decision for you.
Q. I bought a used Ferrari/Maserati/Bentley/Lotus somewhere else.

Can you

put a Certified Pre-Owned Warranty on this?

A. Of course not. NO manufacturer will certify any car that their

franchised

dealership did not sell, has not owned, and inspected & serviced &

brought

up to date in every aspect of its reconditioning. We believe in the

benefits

of the factory extended warranty. And the CPO warranty on any  
brand is

always available exclusively from that franchised dealership, and

never an

independent. We can't put a CPO warranty on a Jaguar, and a Jaguar

dealership can't put CPO on a Bentley.
Q. Is it true that I cannot order a new Ferrari?

A. Yes. And while that might sound a bit rude, it is really a simple

equation of supply and demand. Do you really think we'd turn away

perfectly

good revenue? In a perfect world, we could get all the new Ferraris

that we

could sell (like the Ford or Chevy dealer can). But we can't. New

Ferrari

cars are limited. Under 5000 each year for the entire planet. At

all the USA

franchised Fererari dealerships, the 430s & 599s are pre-sold &

back ordered

many years in advance. So... Rather than let our back-order

situation just

get worse, we had to fix the problem. But it's not just Ferrari of

Denver.

All the franchised Ferrari dealers are sold-out years into the

future. Check

around, it's true. We're delivering Ferrari cars in 2007 that were

ordered

in 2001-2 (no kidding). Ferrari of Denver no longer accepts orders

on new

Ferrari because the demand side of that equation got too big and

the supply

side stayed the same. Now, think what that does in the marketplace

for value

of ANY Ferrari. For Ferrari cars available now, focus on the  
trade-in

Ferraris on the inventory page.
Q. Can I order a new Bentley?
A. Yes, But it might not be necessary. We have a pretty fair
selection of
Continental-series Bentley. In most cases.... Bentley build-
positions are
available in VERY limited numbers, and we will build a Bentley for
you with
a non refundable cash deposit. Azure and Arnage probably cannot be
ordered,
as the pipeline between order date and delivery date is 8-12
months; these
are still handbuilt by skilled artisans. Continental Convertible is
mostly
sold out, Flying Spur is mostly out of production (for the time
being) but
the inventory is fairly good nationwide, and the GT is becoming
quite rare
to find a production slot. And note: we can not retail into another
Bentley
retailer's state.
Q. Can I order a new Maserati?
A. Yes. But again, it might not be necessary. The new Quattroporte
Automatic
is available now in limited numbers, and a special order at this
time will
probably take 6 months. The coupe and convertible are currently not
being
produced, but we stock a fair number of Certified Pre-Owned
2002-2006 at any
given time.
Q. Can I order a new Lotus?
A. Not for 2007. The production numbers will be too small
nationwide. You're
buying from inventory, and remember that we can (probably) get you
any color
you might want from any of our associate Lotus dealers across the
country.
Q. Can we just stop by the showroom and look and maybe take a
picture or
two?
A. Yes, please be our guest. We welcome folks from all over the
country that
just stop in to look and maybe shoot the breeze for awhile.
Q. Can I have some new car brochures?
A. No longer. With the internet, our four franchised manufacturers
have gone
to virtual information, all of which can be printed from their
websites.
Q. Can I come test drive a Ferrari?
A. No.
Q. How about a Bentley?
A. Probably not.
Q. Ok, how about a Lotus?
A. Probably not.
Q. How about a Maserati?
A. Probably not.
Q. Why can't I come drive your cars? Every other dealership will

let us

drive.

A. Here's our company philosophy: Isn't it nice to know that when  
you

purchase a Ferrari or Bentley or Maserati or Lotus from Ferrari of

Denver

that it hasn't been loaned out to every wacko who walks thru the  
door?

Here's what we know: Drivers aren't buyers and buyers aren't

drivers....

it's THE oldest rule in exotic car sales, and it is 100% accurate.

Real

buyers simply don't even ask. We aren't the local amusement park,

and this

isn't the local Ford dealership. As a business, we won't risk a

valuable

automobile for your amusement. There's no shortage of folks who

would love

to spend their day entertaining themselves at our expense, playing

Ferrari/Bentley/etc buyer. And yes, really, we really do sell these

cars

without a test-drive or demo-drive.
Q. How many cars does Ferrari of Denver sell in a year.

A. Average 365: all four franchises, excludes wholesale cars that

we do not

keep. About the same as a larger domestic dealership sells in a  
month.
Q. How do I get one of those wholesale cars?

A. You can't. We wholesale within a very limited group of franchised

dealers. But.... look on E-BAY for our non-franchised cars &  
selected

specials. Usually a good selection of diverse cars that are

available for

bid, plus you can come view them at the dealership in person. We

have a 100%

positive rating with past E-bay buyers. Doesn't get much better.
Q. I want to sell advertising to Ferrari of Denver. Who do I  
contact?

A. Mostly, we are linked to several philanthropic & charitable

organizations

and client-based relationships. We advertise very little, and most

of what

you do see costs us nothing. New advertising venues will not be

considered.
Q. Can I call you guys and ask for free advice?
A. Yes, as long as you remember that it's worth what it costs.
Q. How does one join that exclusive group of Ferrari owners, if

there are no

new cars available for sale?

A. Most of Ferrari's clientele is well-established and has been  
so for

decades. That opportunity is long passed. 99.9% of first time

Ferrari buyers

start with a pre-owned Ferrari. Keep within your budget, and buy

the best

car that you can afford; not the worst, and certainly not the

cheapest, then

trade up. Provenance (history/documentation)is everything. Buy  
from a

franchised Ferrari dealership, even if it isn't us. ONLY Ferrari

dealerships

can get you Ceretified Pre Owned Ferrari Factory extended

warranties. Your

Ferrari will be worth more in the future with good Ferrari history.

Also

consider having the Ferrari factory CERTIFY your prize 25 year old

or older

Ferrari. Fairly inexpensive, and multiplies the value. We can

arrange that

for you.
Q. Should I take my Ferrari to an independent for service and  
repairs?

A. That's completely up to you. But, for newer Ferrari models,

absolutley

not. No independent has the factory's support and warranties (even

though

they will tell you different). Our very own Bill Evandon is ONE of

only NINE

Ferrari Factory certified Master Technicians in the USA, right  
here at

Ferrari of Denver (the other 8 are also within the franchised  
Ferrari

community). That's a tough act to follow. Plus you'll also get

Ferrari-backed nationwide warranty on almost all service and

repairs. Again,

no indy can claim that. For your prized Ferrari's future value, it's

certainly easier to explain franchised Ferrari dealership service

documentation; it spends well when you go to sell. Buyers like

seeing that

you can actually care for the Ferrari properly. If you need it done

cheap

and probably half-wrong, go for it. We're still here to help you  
do it

right, later.
Q. Is Alfa Romeo coming back to the USA?
A. Yes, perhaps as early as 2008. But the brand won't be the
$10,000 Spider
we used to sell in the late 70s & early 80s.
Q. I have a Ferrari. My friends have been invited to your private
track
events in the past, how do I get an invitation?
A. If your Ferrari is from somewhere else (we didn't sell it)
you're still
on the outside looking in. Sorry.
Q. Can you arrange a factory tour at Ferrari?

A. Yes, with a copy of your Ferrari registration or title.  
Ferrari is

pleased to have owners visit the factory and take the tour, but

reservations

are absolutley required. Contact us for details & limitations. Not

a Ferrari

owner? Sorry, no tour because they simply don't have the staff.
Q. Can I visit the Bentley Factory at Crewe England?
A. Yes, and you don't need to be an owner of a Bentley. By
reservation only,
and we will arrange it for you. Amazing day at Crewe awaits.
Q. I want an Enzo or F40 or F50. How do I go about getting you to

find one

for me.

A. Like any of our endeavors, we start with the Jerry Maguire (show

me the

money). On the specialty high dollar cars, we'll not accept the

assignment

on a casual basis; instead requiring a contract be established  
first.
Q. How many of your cars have their pictures "stolen" for Myspace?
A. We looked it up, and last month that occurred 176 times.
Q. Can I consign my Ferrari/Maserati/Bentley/Lotus with you for  
sale?

A. No. We own our inventory. But, There are lots of places in town

who can't

afford to own these cars; we're sure they'll take your car on

consignment.

They're easy to find.... the ones that claim they are real Ferrari

dealer

too. And good luck with that.
Q. How many cars does Ferrari bring to the USA each year? What
about other
high end makes? What makes Ferrari THE pinnacle collector car?
A. About 1200 new Ferrari are produced for America each year. 100 a
month or
so, That's not very many. GM makes that many cars in about 6
minutes. With
Ferrari's Formula 1 dominance and 60 years of racing history,
nothing can
compare with Ferrari's ongoing excitement and desirability. Ferrari
factory
is working 100% to fill worldwide demand. But, Ferrari cannot clone
skilled
artisans to produce more. So... you can get a new Lambo right now.
Good car.
Or a new Porsche: also a good car, but one of maybe 50,000 for
America this
year. It really becomes this simple equation: supply and demand.
Which one's
the best investment? The prancing horse of course.
Q. Is it true that 85% of your sales go to existing and repeat
clientele?
Why is that?
A. Maybe it's because our customer support is unparalleled. Maybe
it is Bill
Stewart's efforts to establish this dealership as the leader in
Colorado.
Maybe it's the 35 years of continuous operation in Denver. Maybe
it's as
simple as supply and demand and great clients who can understand and
appreciate that this enterprise isn't a passing fancy. Compare us
with all
the short term undercapitalized imitators with 2-3 years under
their belt.
Our investment in our personnel's ongoing training and
infrastructure, the
costs associated with the building and the inventory and the
growth..... not
cheap, not easy and not easily imitated. Mostly, it's our faithful
and loyal
clients and friends who continue their patronage year after year.
Q. Do you rent out your cars?
A. No, but it's a common question. No one in Colordo rents exotic
cars. The
closest location for exotic automobile rentals (Ferrari & Bentley
and such)
is actually Budget of Beverly Hills. Be prepared for expensive
daily rates
and huge debit on your card for a damage deposit; but they will
rent you
almost anything you can afford, it just won't be cheap.
Q. How accurate is CARFAX and all those online vehicle history
checks that
one can do?
A. Mostly, they're pretty good. But as you can imagine, mistakes on
$100,000
and $200,000 cars can be significant. CARFAX is the largest, plus
lots of
sites you've never heard of.... titleguard, edmunds, autocheck,
cardetective, and several others you can find with a google search.
Of the
group, titleguard is the worst; their accuracy is nil, they charge
the most,
and refuse to make corrections. Edmunds isn't much better, and
sadly both
sites have proven unresponsive to documentable corrections. For all
the
sites, errors are usually attributed to clerical issues on 17 digit
VINs and
6 digit odometers. The state & smog-check agencies that report data
are the
worst; have you checked your annual emission report for accuracy?
Right here
at home, Air Care Colorado is erroneous on about 20% of their
reporting,
reading trip odometers and misreading regular ones. Recently, on a
2002
Arnage we wanted to research prior to trading for it, carfax
reported that a
16000 mile California car became 133000 mile car in one month. After
"exhaustive" investigation, they concluded it wasn't probable to
drive 163
mph for 720 hours straight, and corrected it (I still have the old
one for
illustration). Also, high dollar cars often escape insurance
payouts for
minor accidents, so carfax cannot discover those repairs. Accident
report
document numbers are, by their own admission, bogus. They'll get
the state
and maybe the city right, not the report number. CARFAX made huge
strides
after Katrina to accurately identify flood cars, and they are to be
commended; very few exotics seem to have been caught up in that sad
disaster. So, yes, trust CARFAX, but not blindly. Use your noggin a
bit.
Q. American muscle cars are bringing ever-higher prices at the
Collector Car
Auctions; some costing more than significant Ferrari cars. Will this
muscle-car price bubble burst?
A. Count on it.
<winmail.dat>
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Re: Check out the FAQs from Ferrari of Denver	<– Date –> <– Thread –>
From: Robert W. Garven Jr. (rgarvengmail.com)
Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2007 23:06:53 -0700 (PDT)