Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Well, that just about sums it up (with lots of TECH and Ferrari Content, but no opinions added)

[LS (lashdeep]

Beautiful Rick...please send a link to some pics of both cars! BTW-What is your 
race weight on the '66?

I haven't had the balls to tear apart the '66 GT350 for some mods (for the sake 
of maintaining its value). I am, however, thinking about a vintage Boss 302 T/A 
project.  I've had the chance to really study a Boss currently running in a 
vintage series. The progress in the motor is very clever and interesting. Who 
knows what Cobra Automotive has done inside one of their "vintage legal" 
motors...

I'll be in the pits next year at Monterrey. A buddy's brother (Ken Adams) runs 
in the vintage T/A group with Vic and Cammie Edelbrock...plan on taking lots of 
notes and giving them a hand with car setup as well.

LS


----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 2:01:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Well, that just about sums it up (with lots of TECH and 
Ferrari Content, but no opinions added)


Lash,
 
We run current (GT1, 2000 Huffaker) as well as historic (66 Shelby) Trans AM.  
We do run (but hide) current ignition systems.  We all still have to run cast 
iron heads and maintain "period looking" motors.  Internals on the historic 
motors today are very new, very exotic in most cases...  just stuffed under 
stamped valve covers.  The real limiting factors are the period intakes you are 
required to use.  But the insides get massaged heavily.   Many of the guys are 
getting well in excess of 600HP if they have dual carbs and forced air intake 
systems.  One of our buds runs the Parnelli Jones Boss...  when Parnelli guest 
drives, the first thing he does is pull the chip out of the MSD box....  and he 
still drives the piss out of the car.
 
At the Historic tour at Limerock last year one of the entrants was a 
"survivor".  Essentially still running a period motor and being driven by the 
same guy who drove it in the late 60's.  He actually got within 2 seconds of 
his same lap time in 1968.   The field lapped him numerous times with their 
current (non pro) owner/drivers.   Lets just say today's historic motors are 
miles ahead of anything Bud Moore put together in even in the early 70's.
 
Rick


----- Original Message ----
From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
To: Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 10:05:14 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Well, that just about sums it up (with lots of TECH and 
Ferrari Content, but no opinions added)

Ahh...Monday morning tech...feels good.

For FG: Bud Moore setup Ford's SCCA Trans Am cars in 1970. They ran production 
blocks and slightly modified (treated, polished, etc.) internals with stock 
heads. A typical Boss 302, pushrod race motor made 530bhp out of 4.9 liters at 
9600rpm. They redlined at 10,500. These are motors that ran a 2 hour race, up 
and down the revs with variable loads.

Nowadays, due to improved engine mgmt (mainly ignition) and some "rethinking" 
on the heads/intake porting, 570bhp is possible while still adhering to vintage 
race regulations.

Amazing really...

RE: Hans' point #2- Indeed, although you can get away with a mild boost 
arrangement with most stock motors, lower compression is the way to go. 

LS

----- Original Message ----
From: Hans E. Hansen <FList [at] hanshansen.org>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 6, 2007 2:26:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Well, that just about sums it up (with lots of TECH and 
Ferrari Content, but no opinions added)

For FG:  The NASCRAP guys routinely turn over 9000rpm.  Not
exactly stock engines, but they are pushrod.  Drag racers go
much higher.

Just $.02, some a bit off topic:

1.  I was talking several years ago to Jim Mennaker (sp?  I have his
business card around here somewhere.....), who was in charge of
powertrains for Corvette and some other GM vehicles.  I asked why
they were developing a new (this was in the mid '90s) pushrod
engine for the Corvette and not pursuing the OHC technology that
they started with the Lotus designed motor.  He said that they
could make similar or more power per pound of *engine* weight
than they could with OHC technology.  Also, it would be smaller
in size (esp. width), which simplifies vehicle assembly.

2.  All this discussion about forced induction:  You are forgetting that
converting a N/A engine to forced requires reducing compression
(read: new pistons) unless the boost is relatively mild.  Similar problems
can exist if you try overboosting an OEM forced induction engine.  Sure,
many of them can tolerate some additional boost, but you have to be
carefull.

3.  Ref: #2, engines with significant boost have low compression, and
tend to be less efficient at part throttle (street/highway).  Thus as a
practical matter, mileage suffers.  I was involved with Callaway Corvettes
in the late '80s.  These engines were stock except modified for strength
via better rods, crank, etc.  Stock cam and heads.  But compression was 8:1
and gas mileage off boost was crappy  (OK, it wasn't so good on boost
either......)

Hans.


On 12/6/07, Fellippe Galletta <fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com> wrote:
> Just curious...
>
> Is it possible to get a lot of revs from a pushrod motor? Say a redline
> above 7000 rpm....up to 8000 or more?
>
> Not that its necessary, but there is an allure to a very high revving motor
> just for the sound of it. :)
>
> FG
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