Ferrari Mailing List: Re: All about oil????

[Michael James (cavallino_rapante]

   If this is all true-n-good, why am I not hearing folks use the Mobil 1
   European Car Formula 0w40 oil in their Ferraris?  Seems to be the best
   of both/all worlds....is the first digit 'too' low?


   Michael

   --- On Mon, 3/24/08, LarryT <l02turner [at] comcast.net> wrote:

     From: LarryT <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
     Subject: Re: [Ferrari] All about oil????
     To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
     Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
     Date: Monday, March 24, 2008, 10:00 AM
Hi Peter,
    Supposedly, the 10W is the viscosity when measure at 32F or some similar 
number on the cold side of the thermometer - with the 50 (or whatever) 
measured at 210F or so -- but the reality is it's a compromise - your 
logical mind will tell you oil doesn't get more viscous as temp *rises*  - 
and your mind will be right.  It's not as straightforward as that 
(naturally) but that's basically the case  - hot oil gets thinner and cold 
oil gets thicker.

Say you have 10W50 or 5W50 in an engine - the engine will turn over pretty 
easily when cold with these low "1st" numbers - but if it is compared
to 
5W30 or 10W30, these last 2 grades will not be as viscous at 210F as the 
previous pair - as advertised - and again as expected, the 2nd set will have 
lower oil pressure when warm/hot - again, as expected and advertised.

Now we compare all those 4 viscosities to, say 15W40 Mobil 1 like many 
people use (I use it in my diesel MBs and 15W50 in my 911)  -- this 
viscosity and similar ones like the 15W50 M1, will still offer excellent low 
temp viscosity Vs the 5W or 10W while offering better high temperature 
protection.

I doubt I explained this very well - actually I'm sure I didn't. 
You're 
right, it *is* a complex subject.  Again, IMO, either a 5W,10W or15W will 
all offer excellent cold temp protection - and it closes the range between 
the low & high numbers reducing the numbers of additives needed to reach 
those wide gaps (between the 5 and 40 for instance) - as Rick Lindsey 
rightly pointed out.

Basically, the 15W will help keep the high numbers's temp viscosity in the 
proper territory - better than the 5W - maybe that's what I should have
said 
to begin with?.

BTW, if you would like to see the difference between regular and synthetic 
oil, pour some of each into a couple of cups and put them in the freezer 
overnight - pour them out in the morning and see which one you want 
circulating in your engine the next time you startup at 15F.

If you really believe a 10W40 acts like 10weight at 32f and 40weight at 210, 
you can do a similar comparision by freezing a small cup and then heating 
another small quantity - use a hot plate in the garage as it will make the 
kitchen smell like hot oil, which the little woman will not appreciate - and 
compare the way they both pour.  I bet you will see the cold oil pour more 
slowly than the hot oil -

Hope this helps -

Take care -

Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
800-583-8601
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter Pless" <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au>
To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 9:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] All about oil????


> Larry....why go higher for the first number? I could maybe understand
> sticking to a 50, but surely the lower the first number the better for 
> cold
> starts? Isn't that how it works?
>
> It's all a bit confusing. Just like I've had to change jetting to
live 
> with
> modern fuels, I wouldn't be surprised that ferrari would choose a 
> different
> oil if the 308GT4 were to be released today. The 355 requires 5W40 I
> believe...subject to confirmation.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: LarryT [mailto:l02turner [at] comcast.net]
> Sent: Monday, 24 March 2008 10:33 PM
> To: Peter Pless
> Cc: 'The FerrariList'
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] All about oil????
>
> Hi Peter,
>    Do you know what the Owners Manual calls for?  I looked at a O.M. for a
> 308QV (it's a scan - not sure what year it is for - you;re welcome to
a 
> copy
> if you'd like) and it looks like it is saying to use Agip SINT 10W50 -
I'm
> guessing that's a Synthetic?.
>
>    I suspect you'll be fine with the 5W40 - - especially since you are
> using Synthetic.  Keep an eye on oil pressure and temps - especially at 
> idle
> when doing some "spirited" driving.  IMHO the pressure should
not drop 
> below
>
> 3-5psi at idle and the temp should not exceed 240-250.   If either of 
> these
> happened on one of my cars I'd start looking for a reason and/or a way
to
> cool the oil a bit - and going to 15W50 would be a way to start.  No, it
> doesn't cool any better by going to a higher weight but it does
provide a
> higher strength to keep the crank, rod and cam bearings properly 
> lubricated.
>
> With low viscosity oils I worry about metal to metal contact under extreme
> conditions.
>
>    But that's just me.   ;-)
>
> Good luck -
>
> Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
> www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results
> http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
> 800-583-8601
> Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Peter Pless" <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au>
> To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
> Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Sent: Monday, March 24, 2008 12:10 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] All about oil????
>
>
>> So now I'm confused.
>>
>> Will my newly rebuilt 308 2V engine be ok with fully synthetic 5W 40?
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: LarryT [mailto:l02turner [at] comcast.net]
>> Sent: Monday, 24 March 2008 8:51 AM
>> To: Peter Pless
>> Cc: 'The FerrariList'
>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] All about oil????
>>
>> Right you are.  I am 100% positive the engineers who specify the oils
we
>> should use - especially in new cars - would dearly love to suggest the
>> very
>> low viscosity oils the Doctor believes in.  And now that the CAFE
>> standards
>> have been raised once again there will be even more pressure to use
>> lightweight oils.
>>
>> I always find it interesting to see what the human mind can
rationalize
>> ;-)
>>
>> Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
>> www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results
>> http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
>> 800-583-8601
>> Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
>>
>>
>>
>>  ----- Original Message -----
>>  From: Martin Stark
>>  To: LarryT
>>  Cc: 'The FerrariList'
>>  Sent: Sunday, March 23, 2008 8:25 AM
>>  Subject: Re: [Ferrari] All about oil????
>>
>>
>>  The good doctor seems to be obsessed with heat conduction and
oblivious
>> to
>> film strength.
>>
>>  LarryT wrote:
>> Hi Peter,
>> ya know, it's hard to tell when yo;re being sarcastic sometimes.
l;-)
>>
>> If you are not, let me share  my thoughts about the use of very low 
>> weight
>> oils in older vehicles:
>>
>> I know Dr Haas is probably a great plastic surgeon, but I would not
run
>> 0W20
>> or 0W30 oil in a car more than 5 years old with more than 50k on it.
>> Older
>> and vehicles with more than a few miles just will not be fully
protected
>> with such low viscosity oil, IMO.   The ability of the low viscosity
oil
>> to
>> carry the weight of the crank and rods is just not as good as a
heavier
>> weight oil.
>>
>> Larry T (66 MGB, 74 911, 91 300D)
>> www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results
>> http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
>> 800-583-8601
>> Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter Pless" <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au>
>> To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
>> Cc: "'The FerrariList'"
<ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
>> Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:43 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] All about oil????
>>
>>
>>  I think that's an awesome article! It's exactly what I've
suspected all
>> this
>> time, and considering the source as well, I'm going to be changing
the 
>> oil
>> in my GT4 immediately.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pvb308 [at] comcast.net [mailto:pvb308 [at] comcast.net]
>> Sent: Friday, 21 March 2008 3:09 AM
>> To: Peter Pless
>> Cc: The FerrariList
>> Subject: [Ferrari] All about oil????
>>
>> I came across an interesting article on engine oil, from the Florida
>> Region
>> of the Ferrari Owners Club. Since I'm not an expert on engine
oils---does
>> anyone have any opinions on this article???? The article can be found
at:
>> www.focfloridaregion.com/
>> To open the article -on the left side of the page- click on
"Educational
>> Articles" --then click on "Introduction to Motor Oil".
>>
>> Thanks,
>>   Jerry in Ponte Vedra Beach, FL
>>
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