| Re: oils and coolant for the last time | <– Date –> <– Thread –> |
From: LarryT (l02turner comcast.net)
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| Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:47:07 -0800 (PST) | |
Hi Martin - Thx for the link - The FAQ says <<The zinc content is in the range of 0.12 - 0.13 weight percent (1200 - 1300 ppm). >> I suspect that may be the level of new oil. My numbers are for used oil which have depleted additive levels. And for new oil it is probably perfectly acceptable but I wonder how long before it depletes to an unacceptable level. Based on my Oil Analysis Report spreadsheet, if I go back into 2006 (for API ratings before the SM type, hopefully) I see levels for used oil at Phos - 1530 - 1259 - 1468 Z - 1518 - 1178 - 1009 (To just provide 3 reports to make it easier on me) Which IMHO indicates the levels of ZDDP (Phos and Zinc combined) has dropped by some unknown amount over the recent time frame when SM rating was released. Some of the used oils (usually the lighter viscosities and/or higher miles of use) had lower P and Z levels of around 900 +/-. I know this is a complex matter. Each engine is different, each oil sees different use in different environments and driving styles, heat, etc. That's why I say to throw some ZDDP additive in and be satisfies you're covered. You'll spend a extra $5-$10 for peace of mind and to have a properly lubricated engine. BTW, I have a Marine engine using 15W40 (no brand given) that was 1600 and 1510. So some oils start with higher levels. BTW, my oil sample info is no longer available on line (lost my Rennlist web space) but I will send it to anyone who wants it in excel format. Take care - LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net From: Martin Stark Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 6:27 PM To: LarryT Cc: The FerrariList Subject: Re: [Ferrari] oils and coolant for the last time Guys, See here: https://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Zinc_Levels_15W50_Mobil_1_Products.aspx LarryT wrote: Hi Ed - All of the Analysis' for M1 has had Phos and Z between 730 and 900 for P and 950 to 1150 ppm for Z. Naturally each oil has seen different useages and some engines with different mechanics and environments. All have a affect on the rapidity the additives are used up. Plus, I have only looked at recent analysis' in an attempt to look at SM grade of oil - which has the reduced level of ZDDP. No where in the Lab form is the UPI grade requested and most customers would probably not know what UPI index was used 3-6 months previously. So it makes the picture muddy. For my 911 I chose to add some stuff called "Cam Lube" which is specifically a ZDDP enhancer. It's cheap insurance. Now that the government is "helping" us with out oil choices it pays to have a little insurance. IIRC, the recommendation for ZDDP levels is around 1200+ PPM. LarryT OilAnalysis Time? Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? www.youroil.net -------------------------------------------------- From: "E M" <pokiebaron [at] gmail.com> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 3:38 PM To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net> Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] oils and coolant for the last time Hi Larry, you're the oil guy, refresh my memory. While Mobil 1 synthetic is near the top of the list, aren't the zinc numbers still a bit low for engines like old air cooled 911s ? If so, wonder if it's also a bit low on the zinc side for some of the older, hot running Ferrari engines? It would be cool to gather some of the zinc numbers of various oils and post them all together. Thanks, Ed 911SC 20/50 dino 2009/11/30 Larry B <larrybard [at] hotmail.com> My mechanics (who also race) swear by Elf synthetic, and say based on their research and anecdotal evidence it's preferable to Mobil 1. From: clyderomero [at] worldnet.att.net Date: Mon, 30 Nov 2009 14:15:18 -0500 Subject: [Ferrari] oils and coolant for the last time CC: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com To: larrybard [at] hotmail.com Guys MOBIL 1 is the oil period It’s the same stuff that is used in JET ENGINES! When I start an jet engine at work it starting temp is 700 C Normal operating temp is 500 C Are you getting it now ! When it comes to coolant I lived in New Orleans for 20 plus years with a 308 QV Never had a cooling issue because I drained and flushed the systems yearly. When you do that you check the hoses and stay ahead of major problems Used prestone and never had one problem I could stay in 95 degree OAT traffic and temp would stay in the zone When you flush your system well it gets all or most of the major problems that hang around in the system waiting to bite you in the ass later Its cheap and very effective As some of you know I race bikes Nothing puts out more power per litter than a bike And that equals heat We use water wetter in the bikes since we don’t run when its freezing out side Using plain coolant what ever brand is JUST PLAIN STUPID Read the owners manual ! Gotta go Pics to follow on my 512 transaxle deal Clyde Capt. Clyde Romero Jr. Manpad SME Clyderomero [at] worldnet.att.net Mobile 678 641 9932 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail (including attachments) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this medium please so advise the sender immediately. Electronic Transmission Security Notice: E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of the message that arise as a result of its electronic (e-mail) transmission. -----Original Message----- From: Michael James [mailto:cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 10:22 AM To: clyde Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III David recommends a heavier-weight synthetic.....I used 0-W-40 Mobil 1 European Car formula with two bottles of either 10-W-40 or 20-W-50 thrown in to add some additional 'weight' to the mix.....the overheating I've experienced broke-down the oil, and increased bearing wear....so, I have a lot of internal damage for only 36K on the odometer. --- On Thu, 11/26/09, JIM WILCOX <jimshadow [at] verizon.net> wrote: From: JIM WILCOX <jimshadow [at] verizon.net> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com> Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 5:57 PM I'd be curious to hear what oil David recommends in the 308. He is a good guy and has helped me out quite a bit with my GT4. JIM --- On Thu, 11/26/09, Tom Reynolds <kjtar [at] cox.net> wrote: From: Tom Reynolds <kjtar [at] cox.net> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III To: "JIM" <jimshadow [at] verizon.net> Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 6:11 PM Michael, What kind of oil were you using? How long between changes? What kind of driving did you usually do? What oil is he recommending for when the car is back on the road again? Tom Tulsa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael James" <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com> To: <kjtar [at] cox.net> Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 2:54 PM Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III My mechanic, David Feinberg, believes my choice in oil coupled with the heat did some serious damage - the piston rings scoured the cylinder liners, and vice-versa when the oil 'broke-down" from high-heat, and the bearings in the motor are all SHOT. The Cams and Crankshaft were spared, but the bearing sets have risen in price over the years....and so have cylinder liners. I also burned-through a piston. I also have all of the engine gaskets to replace (a whole-set of engine gaskets are $1,800, which include the head gaskets). All 16 exhaust valves are destroyed, along with 9 intake valves.....the previous valve job managed to 'nick' all of the valves and corrupt their sealing properties, so my compression/leakdown numbers were horrible across the board. I suppose I should be lucky that the Block and Heads were spared, but the internal 'bits' that have been roasted over the years....crap! Anywho, we'll have to sit-down and review what the way-ahead looks like. M --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Martin Stark <MStark [at] Copper.net> wrote: From: Martin Stark <MStark [at] Copper.net> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com> Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com> Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 4:40 PM As Bill famously said, "I feel your pain." In my case a TR first gear repair, a crown gear carrier upgrade, and a ridiculously expensive throwout bearing replacement. Kind of like the restaurant price guide - $$$$$. Michael James wrote: Well, the good news is that the Block and Heads are NOT warped at all. In fact, we can re-use them with only minor machine work. And that's about the only good news I have......there was evidence of a previous valve-job done BADLY, and most all of the valves need replacement, along with the valve guides. I also need one new piston, all new piston rings, and here's the kicker - all new nikasil cylinder liners. Ted Rutlands was called, and he has NO QV engines 'on the shelf', so I'm stuck rebuilding my own engine. The parts bill will be steep.... M _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/mstark%40copper.net Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com and F1 Headlines http://www.F1Headlines.com/ _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/cavallino_rapante%40yah oo.com Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com and F1 Headlines http://www.F1Headlines.com/ _________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit: http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/kjtar%40cox.net Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com and F1 Headlines http://www.F1Headlines.com/ -- Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. 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- Re: oils and coolant for the last time, (continued)
- Re: oils and coolant for the last time Larry B, November 30 2009
- Re: oils and coolant for the last time E M, November 30 2009
- Re: oils and coolant for the last time LarryT, November 30 2009
- Re: oils and coolant for the last time Martin Stark, November 30 2009
- Re: oils and coolant for the last time LarryT, November 30 2009
- Re: oils and coolant for the last time Stephen Sherman, November 30 2009
- Re: oils and coolant for the last time clyde romero, November 30 2009
- Re: Engine Rebuild III clyderomero, November 26 2009
- Re: Engine Rebuild III Martin Stark, November 26 2009
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