Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Have your cake and eat it too!

[Peter Pless (ferrarilist]

I love my Vectrix J

 

From: Britt2Asa [at] aol.com [mailto:Britt2Asa [at] aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, 22 May 2010 6:29 AM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Have your cake and eat it too!

 

Guys,

Its nice to be back! If you don't mind me saying since I work in the industry and don't just read stuff off the internet, Apple pie is Apple pie but there are a lot of different receipts. Tesla's application is specific to Tesla. Other manufacturers do it differently. You know up in Sunderland at the Nissan plant they will be producing 50,000 LEAFs a year in another 12 months. (Next years production is from Japan). You say it will never take off? Well not on the level of taxes and policies the US has but over here with a London Low emissions zone, CO2 charging and fuel tax it is quickly shifting towards electric cars in the right application.

 

The analogy is a bit silly if you don't mind me saying. Do you not think the battery failed in your computer because the charger was probably not the best? When you can buy a computer charger/phone charger for a few dollars of EBAY, don't be surprised when your Li-ion battery only lasts a year or two. The chargers we use cost 5000.00 EACH (that's pounds, not dollars). Come from Brusa in Switzerland. We use 2 or 4 on each vehicle. They look at charging on a cell level, that is each individual cell in each li-ion module is looked at and the charge is individually controlled. This as you can imagine is very very expensive to design and build but adds greatly to the battery life. (estimated 10 plus years in excess of the vehicle life) Don't assume the batteries in the car you eventually buy have much in common with you computer other than they are both called Li-ion.

 

Do you know that an industry is being built up here in the UK in the USA and Japan to "second life" all these batteries when they are no longer suitable to work in a vehicle but still can hold energy? You can pile them up on a truck and get one gigawatt of power as a portable power supply. Use them to store wind energy generated at night when the grid demand is low, use them as back up power storage for data centres, hospitals, office buildings. Even seen designs to put them in sailing yachts as ballast and energy for a supplemental electric motor. I'm not involved in that side of the business but talk to people who are every week. The point of this is having a higher value on the used batteries means a lower whole life cost on the vehicle which makes them more affordable as the capital cost on electric vehicles is very high currently.

 

Enough on the lesson. The nameless company I work for is design some stuff that will be out in the next year or two that is pretty amazing and cutting edge stuff. Oh and most of the engineering team are serious gear heads. Our engineering director spent his last two years at Mclaren working on the new little super car. (MP whatever it is called) He also did most of the architecture on the SLR. An electric car wouldn't work for me, I drive 400 miles most day. Diesel BMW is the only way to afford the fuel and emissions taxes and go that distance but for most people commuting only 10-20 miles a day an EV would work very well even if just a second car.

 

I am not giving up the Italian car thing but trust me if you are a car buff you need to keep your eyes open cause there is some really interesting stuff in the EV world and more coming out. Over here in the next 2 years we have Nissan, Merc, Mitsubishi, Audi, Citroen, Fiat, Peugeot, Vauxhall, and possibly Ford (not confirmed yet but the market rumours are there) all introducing electric cars to the mainstream market. I bet the Lotus Evora is an EV pretty soon (Lotus and Jag/Land Rover are constantly running recruitment ads here for engineers in the electric car industry)

 

One last little point, I don't know anybody working in the manufacturing/engineering side of the electric vehicle business who is doing it to save the world or make the world greener. They are doing it because it is cutting edge technology and it is fascinating. If you like cars and mechanics and engineering keep your eyes open on what is coming out because you will find it as fascinating as I do!

 

Britt

 

BR in the UK
1986 328GTS (LHD 89,940km) Died August 19, 2006 Shrewsbury UK
1980 400i (RHD 74,000 miles)
Searching for the right 512TR
1985 Bertone X1/9
2003 BMW 530d
1991 Alfa Spider S4 LHD
1993 Alfa Spider S4 LHD
2010 BMW 320d

 

In a message dated 21/05/2010 19:19:11 GMT Daylight Time, FList [at] hanshansen.org writes:

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 11:00 AM, Hans E. Hansen <FList [at] hanshansen.org> wrote:

Uh, well, not really.

 

Spend a bit of time on the Tesla website.  The battery pack is MUCH more than just

batteries.  It contains a full cooling/heating system, as well as highly complex

proprietary electronics.  The individual cells are not replaceable.  It would require

a complete new battery system, which would have to be sourced from Tesla,

unless they choose to license the technology involved to others.

 

Hans.

On Fri, May 21, 2010 at 10:03 AM, Michael James <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

Batteries is Batteries - Duracell, Energizer, Optima, Interstate, etc. will all want to get-into that BIG market and sell you batteries for your car - every future WalMart, Autozone, Pep Boys, Tire Rack, Batteris Plus, and Target will have them in-stock, 24/7.  How many different sizes for Camera and Watch batteries are there?  About a dozen or two?  Did variety kill the market?  Nope.  Silly argument.  Real Capitalists are excited by the prospects.

 

M

--- On Thu, 5/20/10, Mike Fleischer <themightytoe [at] gmail.com> wrote:

From: Mike Fleischer <themightytoe [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Have your cake and eat it too!
To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Thursday, May 20, 2010, 5:38 PM

Yeah but one of life's lessons...

I had a trip out to Silicon Valley last March.  In the middle of a week of presenting for a customer, my mac book's battery died.  Stopped holding a charge, and pretty much was next to useless unless plugged into the AC adapter/wall...  Now fortunately, there were some Apple stores in the Valley and they for some odd reason were well stocked, so $115 later and I am good to go...

Now if I am driving out to Road America and my Tesla's batteries stop holding a charge while I am sleeping at the Osthoff?  I imagine I am entirely F'ed.  This is why Electric cars won't take off, not only are they expensive and less efficient than gasoline vehicles, but the lack of standardization out of the gate will turn it into another unholy Beta vs. VHS fight.  Wait for all the Prius owners to start footing the bill to replace the hybrid battery packs...  Not to mention if it becomes mainstream, dealing with the heavy metals in spent batteries...  China would probably be happy to make children's toys out of  it but shipping it over there might cost more than its worth.

Honestly I really like the Hydrogen fuel cell technology the best out of all the "alternative" sources.

Sorry for the rant, wanted to go flying today and didn't get a chance...  And hey man, stop with all the bicycles already.

LtWacko wrote:

I get tired of hearing "I'll take the old vs. new" or "new vs. old".  Mike, we're on the Ferrari list.  Take 'em both!  LOL.  Oh wait, my house is proof of that and I have room for nothing!

 

Rodney

 

 

 

In a message dated 05/20/10 05:18:39 Central Daylight Time, ferrari-request [at] ferrarilist.com writes:

Certainly having all your torque at 0 RPM is amazing, and having played
with RC cars for many years, its about time someone made a full size
version :)  All it will take is an incremental improvement in battery
technology to push these into the mainstream, but I would not trade it
for the WOT scream of a V-8, 10 or 12 on any given sunny afternoon :).

BR,
Mike