Ferrari Mailing List: SECURITY ISSUES

[dale sailors (sailorsdaleedward]

Hi,

     One tip everyone who thinks about non-lethal TASER type electrical stun guns, cattle prods, etc as an alternative to guns or more conventional weapons-----they have no immediate effect on persons high on inhalents or certain controlled substances. In my reservation days I was involved in an attempt to arrest and handcuff a resident who refused to leave a public building and was very high on spray paint. He had also been involved in several murders in Mexico. I was unarmed (bad idea) and wearing my only nice suit. A security guard had a TASER type stun gun and 38/357 revolver. He got one handcuff on and all hell broke loose. Ten or fiftteen minutes later we had the subject pinned on the floor, my guard had a broken shoulder and other injuries and my suit was torn and bloodied up, fortunately with the subject's fluids. We had completely discharged the stun device

into the subject's torso and face without noticeable effect. At the worst point I ordered the guard to shoot the subject but he didn"t and lost control of the gun.

Fortunately no other bystanders had the nerve to intervene on behalf of the subject. Finally two deputies arrived and the arrest was completed. The next day in the hospital the subject had his muscles knotted up all over and was in considerable pain. At the festivities he apparently felt nothing. Don't depend on electricity to save the day!

                   In B'ham, Al the PD had a similar problem thrying to shock a naked person on PCP at a bus station. The Taser/stun gun had no detectable effect. The four officers tried to tacale the large subject and they got shocked as he was still charged. The incident ended even worse when the subject died from impacts from a net device deployed on poles.

                   Years ago at Eagle Pass a city PD officer named Sifuentes literally blew a guy's eyes out of his head discharging a tear gas billy club into his face during a fight booking a subject into the County jail. Admittedly it was a 12 guage tear gas shell. That's why tear gas billies disappeared.

                   Nonlethal stuff sounds good but has effective problems.

                   About the best idea is Remington plastic pellet riot shotgun shells.

Stings at 25 yards; kills at 3. They allow a graduated defense.

                   Well back to F cars.

                   Happy 4th of July Independence Day Weekend!

                   Ciao!

                   Dale