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I understand what Paul did was a valuable
service to the TR community but in-dealing
with other parts fabricators (some you all
know by name) the issue comes up regarding
liability. Producing parts, and selling them
to others, can be dangerous if
something catastrophic happens.
During my engine re-assembly, we broke-off
a return fuel line nipple to my 308's
passenger-side fuel tank - years of metal
stress and a delicate weld to begin-with gave
up when my mechanic was tuning the motor. A
new return nipple was fabricated, but nobody
wanted to weld it back on - liability. Oh, a
NEW fuel tank was found - there is ONE LEFT in
Europe somewhere for the Ferrari 308 - at a
cost of over $2,200, not including shipping.
The fuel nipple cost $20 to make, but finding
a welder who would take responsibility for
their work on a fuel tank was very challenging
- it took weeks to locate someone. Same with
my fuel lines - you can buy the pieces/parts
from a Cohline supplier, but nobody is going
to sell you a guaranteed,
tested/assembled fuel line for your Ferrari
308 anymore. I bought the parts, and
assembled them with careful guidance and good
tools - we still had a line failure under
pressure, showering the back-half of my engine
with gasoline during a line pressuzation
run-up. Had my starter been connected to the
electricals when this happened, the car (with
a freshly-rebuilt engine just-installed) would
have exploded. My mechanic lost his shit over
that one.....Current fuel-line supplies from
Ferrari Spa were recently sub-contracted to
some clueless hack, and junk is now being
provided as 'factory' parts - I had an
interesting conversation with the folks at Ted
Rutlands about this, there's not much they can
do about it except warn people.
From: Martin Stark <mstark [at] copper.net>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Likely Future 308 Price
Appreciation
To: "Michael"
<Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList"
<ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Monday, September 17, 2012, 12:17 PM
One exception to that is the amazing
reverse engineering job Paul Newman did
when he produced the one piece crown gear
carrier for the boxer/TR series. The one
I bought from him required absolutely no
shimming for either end play or mesh.
On
9/17/2012 8:53 AM, Michael James wrote:
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I've bought from Caribou -
they'll gladly hot-rod your
308 engine using lots of
aftermarket and
custom-fabricated parts. For
around $40,000++ However, the
more aftermarket crap you
stuff into a Ferrari, the less
original it is, and the less
it is worth. At what point
are you driving a Ferrari, and
what point are you
driving Pininfarina's
version of the Pantera?
The trouble with today's
aftermarket parts is that
Ferrari's OEM suppliers were
less-than-forthcoming with the
specifications many of them
were made under, and the
engineers at these aftermarket
parts places are not doing
due-diligence in their
reverse-engineering efforts.
If the overall parts market
were much-larger, they would
probably try harder but they
aren't...buyer beware.
From: Fellippe Galletta <fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Likely
Future 308 Price Appreciation
To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Saturday, September 15,
2012, 3:44 PM
I think with companies like
Carobu around, I wouldn't be
so worried about OEM parts.
And a lot could always be
improved anyways.
FG
On
Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 12:02
PM, Michael James <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>
wrote:
|
These cars
were NOT meant
to 'sit' for
decades in a
garage
somewhere,
waiting to be
discovered as
lost treasure
- an
aluminum-drivetrain car
that sits like
that will need
an engine
rebuild. That
is a fact.
Mine sat for
12 years, and
my pricetag
for that
neglect is
about 20% more
than the
purchase price
of the car
itself, and I
did NOT buy at
a discount.
The "big
question" is
HOW MUCH for
that engine
rebuild, vs.
the cost of
'return on
investment'. In
Ferrari 308
terms, the
maintenance
costs already
exceed value -
308s would
need to gain
at-least 25%
of current
values just to
break-even,
and parts
prices are
still climbing
faster than
values. If
you were to
rebuild a 308
engine today,
it is doubtful
that you would
even FIND some
of the parts
needed to
complete your
effort and
return the
engine to OEM
specifications,
something the
collector
market
requires to
turn a car
into a
collector
commodity.
This
is trending in
directions
that do not
support the
level of
nostalgia for
these machines
needed to keep
them on the
road much
longer.
If your
passion
exceeds one's
'care' about
ROI, then this
discussion is
moot. But the
OP asked about
ROI - and the
308 does NOT
meet the
criteria.
From: fer308qv [at] aol.com <fer308qv [at] aol.com>
Subject: Re:
[Ferrari]
Likely Future
308 Price
Appreciation
Date: Friday,
September 14,
2012, 11:57 AM
Strongly
disagree.
Its a sleeping
classic. Pull
a nice one out
of the garage
in 30 years.
Qvs gts
produced 3042?
Sent
from my
Motorola
Smartphone on
the Now
Network from
Sprint!
-----Original
message-----
No 308
regardless of
who's ass sat
in it will be
worth more
than $20k in
the future
The only
car that mimic
it in price is
the dreaded
348 shit box
If you
think buying a
308 is going
to make you
money
Buy some
RIM stock as
well
They are
blackberry
Clyde
Sent from my
iPhone
Here is
my take on the
hierarchy of
the 308 line
as
desirability
according to
the original
question:
#1 - Euro
Fiberglass -
this was the
only one that
was dry sump.
But only do an
unadulterated
one that has
not been
Federalized,
or at least in
no discernible
way.
#2 - US
Fiberglass
Further
note on
Fiberglass
cars - These
already trade
a a major
premium to the
rest of the
308 market.
There was not
GTS ever as a
fiberglass.
#3 - non
cat
steel, 1977.
If one could
come up with a
non-cat GTS
that would be
special.
#4 - QV.
As a
durability
issue the 1984
and 1985 have
better rust
proofing.
Although
there are some
people that do
prefer the
federalized
Euro over a US
version I do
not unless it
is
de-converted.
Originality
- no
aftermarket
changes. No
color changes.
GTB vs.
GTS - a
personal
preference
issue. GTB
proponents
will argue
about the
lower
production
rates and
somewhat
stiffer body.
Condition
- start with
the right car
don't try
resurrection
unless you are
a masochist
and doing the
all work
yourself plus
get parts at
wholesale.
Mileage -
be careful
about the low
mileage cars.
They could be
a bunch more
mileage than
that if the
speedo cable
had been
disconnected.
Also be real
careful that
low mileage
(under 30K) is
also going to
mean that
driving the
car will be
devaluing it.
So there
is my take.
Jeff
From:
Larry Bard
[mailto:larrybard [at] hotmail.com]
Sent:
Friday, 14
September 2012
7:07 AM
To:
Peter Pless
Cc: The
FerrariList
Subject:
[Ferrari]
Likely Future
308 Price
Appreciation
(Yeah, I
know we covet
Ferraris
because we
love them, not
because we
think we'll
make money if
we ever sell
them, but I'm
asking for a
friend.
Really.)
A friend who
is an
extremely
capable and
experienced
mechanic asked
me which 308s
were likely to
appreciate
over the next
10 years or
so. Not being
even remotely
competent to
answer that
question
myself, I
thought I
would pass it
along to this
list, whose
members
doubtlessly
are better
able to
intelligently
formulate
reasonable
answers.
The friend who
is asking has
a very limited
budget,
doesn't seem
to have
performance as
high on his
list as most
would-be
owners might,
likes old
classics, and
specifically
asked about
possible
appreciation
over something
like the next
10 years.
My guess is
that he is in
fact far less
interested in
the
possibility of
making any
money, and
much more
interested in
avoiding any
serious loss
if he were to
buy one and
sell it in
about 10 years
(though I am
personally
inclined to
believe that
any well
maintained 308
is likely to
at least hold
its value over
the next 10
years,
assuming one
buys it at not
too far in
excess of the
"Clyde"
price).
I know the QVs
have always
been highly
regarded, but
what do all of
you think
about specific
model years,
etc? European
308 GTBi/GTSi
QV?
Relatively
rarer
fiberglass
rather than
steel?
Injection vs.
carburetor?
Any words of
wisdom I could
pass along to
my friend
would be
greatly
appreciated.
Larry
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