Ferrari Mailing List: Re: let the debate begin

[Larry T (l02turner]

Hi Rick,
You might find this an interesting response to your comment about "no one should make you own one. "   Actually this was tried (successfully IMO) in Ga ~30 years ago -  

______________________
 Murder-free in 'Gun Town USA'

Crime rate plummeted after law required firearms for residents

Published: 04/19/2007



As the nation debates whether more guns or fewer can prevent tragedies like
the Virginia Tech Massacre, a notable anniversary passed last month in a
Georgia town that witnessed a dramatic plunge in crime and violence after
mandating residents to own firearms.

In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw – responding to a
handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance
requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite
dire predictions of “Wild West” showdowns and increased violence and
accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a
victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of
the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly
lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but
a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national
average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available – for the year
2005 – show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has
skyrocketed to 28,189.


By comparison, the population of Morton Grove, the first city in Illinois
to adopt a gun ban for anyone other than police officers, has actually
dropped slightly and stands at 22,202, according to 2005 statistics. More
significantly, perhaps, the city’s crime rate increased by 15.7 percent
immediately after the gun ban, even though the overall crime rate in Cook County
rose only 3 percent. Today, by comparison, the township’s crime rate stands at
2,268 per 100,000.

This was not what some predicted.

In a column titled “Gun Town USA,” Art Buchwald suggested Kennesaw would
soon become a place where routine disagreements between neighbors would be
settled in shootouts. The Washington Post mocked Kennesaw as “the brave
little city … soon to be pistol-packing capital of the world.” Phil Donahue
invited the mayor on his show.

Reuters, the European news service, today revisited the Kennesaw
controversy following the Virginia Tech Massacre.

Police Lt. Craig Graydon said: “When the Kennesaw law was passed in 1982
there was a substantial drop in crime … and we have maintained a really low
crime rate since then. We are sure it is one of the lowest (crime) towns in
the metro area.” Kennesaw is just north of Atlanta.

The Reuters story went on to report: “Since the Virginia Tech shootings,
some conservative U.S. talk show hosts have rejected attempts to link the
massacre to the availability of guns, arguing that had students been allowed
to carry weapons on campus someone might have been able to shoot the killer.”

Virginia Tech, like many of the nation’s schools and college campuses, is a
so-called “gun-free zone,” which Second Amendment supporters say invites
gun violence – especially from disturbed individuals seeking to kill as
many victims as possible.

Cho Seung-Hui murdered 32 and wounded another 15 before turning his gun on
himself.
___________________________________________________________________________
Final thoughts:
Everyone has the God given right to protect one's self, family (does anyone object to that?) and to a reasonable extent, their possessions.  Many people cannot do this without firearms.  Many are physically weak, out-numbered, etc.   IMO this makes it a civil right.   Also, the 1st anti gun laws that were wide spread followed the civil war to prevent freed slaves from obtaining weapons to defend themselves and their families.  

The average police response time to a 911 call (assuming the victim call make a call) is between 4 and 25 minutes depending on a huge number of variables.   A lot of crimes can be committed while waiting for the police to arrive. 

If people live places where they feel safe and have no reason to need to protect oneself, you're in a great position!   It was mentioned, that if a armed bad guy demanded their wallet they would give it up - not an unreasonable response - but what if that crime happened monthly?  Weekly?  Daily?  At what point do you decide finding a different place to walk and moving are not alternatives after they've been tried a few times before you decide to find a way to stop seeing your wallet walk down the street without you?
(the above rant was not directed at you Rick)  ;-)
LarryT

On 12/27/2012 10:25 AM, Rick Moseley wrote:

You've had too much kool-ade...  

So these concerns are only valid IF children die??  So one error invalidates the rest of the information?  I THINK not.   That's throwing out the baby with the bath water.  

My bottom line is this. If you don't like guns, by all means, don't own one. And, no one should make you own one.    But if you do like, own, use guns and can do so responsibly then NO ONE (rhetorical) should impose their beliefs on you...   Life is about choices and we should be free to choose.    (Yes, I am one of those anachronisms who is pro gun but not pro life... That's a whole 'nother debate (that frankly I think men should be made to stay out of))

The problem today is that soooo many preach tolerance, but only practice it as long as others see things their way. 

Rick

On Dec 26, 2012, at 6:45 PM, "Peter Pless" <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> wrote:

Didn’t we already determine that no one died in China? Makes a mockery of the rest of the email if it’s full of misinformation.

 

 

 

From: Larry T [mailto:l02turner [at] comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, 27 December 2012 12:40 PM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] let the debate begin

 

ditto.  Very goo points!

BTW, More people are killed with fists, feet, knives and blunt objects By Far than those who are killed with guns.   The same day as the Ct tragedy a nut in China (of all places) killed 22 kids in a school there - with a Knife!

Nuts who want to kill will find a way.  I glad that guy in Ct didn't get on the internet and find the recipe for building a fertilizer bomb - he could have leveled the school!   

re :So called "Assault Weapons" - I assume you're referring to AR15s, AK47s and the like?  other than the caliber there's little technical difference between them and the 12 ga. duck gun my grand dad passed down to me.  There's no reason to ban any of them.   The AR15 in all of its varieties are the most popular target rifle in the US.  It is also used widely as a defensive gun. 

BTW, there was no change in the crime rate that can be attributed to the AW Ban that was in place during the clinton years.  It's a "feel Good" law - people like to do something that makes them feel good when something bad happens - there are in excess of 22000 laws regulating guns in the US - does ANYONE thing another law will prevent a crazy person from stealing a gun and killing people with it?   We'll never know what was going through the mind of the nut in Ct who shot 6 year old kids and it's impossible for normal people (being a relative term) to comprehend what drove him to do something so terrible.  But it has been proven time and again (and again and again) that gun laws affect the actions of law abiding people - not the ones who are going to use a gun illegally in the 1st place.  So you accomplish nothing.

How do you get the criminals guns away from them?  You can't even ask them if they have one because they would incriminate themselves which is illegal for them to do - quite a system we have huh?

Going after guns will do nothing to stop these tragedies.  The only thing that will stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun - not necessarily a police officer - Mayor Bloomburg of NYC likes to say he only wants his NYC PD officers who are trained to use guns to have them in NY - yet he never mentions the recent comedy of errors when officers were called to stop another nut with a gun (who didn't shoot anyone IIRC) and when the cops arrived them fired nearly 100 rounds and injured more than a dozen bystanders!  The "Trained" police we hear about are not that highly trained.

On 12/22/2012 5:19 PM, Rick Moseley wrote:

I have no problems with any weapons.  I have a problem with idiots owning them.   Now how do we keep psychos from getting them.  And no, I don't think taking them away from everyone is an acceptable answer. 

 

Rick

 

On Dec 22, 2012, at 1:58 PM, "cjromero" <clyderomerof4 [at] bellsouth.net> wrote:

Ok so who on the list still thinks we need to have assault weapons?

And for those who hunt can you hunt at night?

 

Standby I am going BURNERS ANGELS 50!!

 

Clyde Romero

 

just the right amount of wrong!

 

"SCARS ARE TATTOOS WITH BETTER STORIES"

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To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
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