Ferrari Mailing List: Re: 930 Air cooled v. 512BB

[Robert W. Garven Jr. (rgarven]

Robert W. Garven Jr.

rgarven [at] gmail.com

 "The Ferrari is a dream - people dream of owning this special vehicle and for most people it will remain a dream apart from for those lucky few." Enzo Ferrari

On Apr 16, 2016, at 11:21 AM, Fellippe Galletta <fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com> wrote:

How does any car enthusiast, let alone a Ferrari owner say that?

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 2:06 PM, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:

I'm sure some miss the sounds of an IBM computer reading punch cards, too.

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From: Fellippe Galletta
Sent: ‎4/‎16/‎2016 12:34 PM

To: Erik Nielsen
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 930 Air cooled v. 512BB

You might be right.

But the death of the romantic sound of gasoline combustion would be sad.

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 12:14 PM, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:

No need for a diff or a transmission. 100% torque at 0 rpm, too.

The automakers screwed up, they tried to convince the market that this was a green solution and missed out the performance benefits. Tesla figured that part out.

Dual powertrains (hybrids) are a bastardized solution to deal with lack of infrastructure and range anxiety.  Lazy engineering...

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From: Fellippe Galletta
Sent: ‎4/‎16/‎2016 11:06 AM

To: Erik Nielsen
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 930 Air cooled v. 512BB

Why would you want a motor on every wheel?

Unless of course you could eliminate the differential by doing so?

On Sat, Apr 16, 2016 at 11:39 AM, Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:

The I3 is still around.

The next real trick set up will be an electric motor on each wheel. I'm expecting to see it in the next 10 years, sooner if the powers that be in racing allow it. But I expect that legacy automakers will fight it tooth and nail.

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From: Rick Moseley
Sent: ‎4/‎16/‎2016 9:56 AM
To: Erik Nielsen

Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 930 Air cooled v. 512BB

Doug,

I believe the name you are looking for was Michelle Mouton...  she came within a point of winning the rally championship then went to Pikes Peak and destroyed the existing record at the time.  I think she only did it once.  After that Audi brought Walter Rorhl.(spelling?)

On the street, that "disappointment" only lasted one race... Long Beach.  By the time the second race of their first season came along Hurley Haywood was dominant.  It wasn't until Hans Stuck discovered left foot braking did "Donohue's unfair advantage" come back to the race track.   Yes, watching him dance on the pedals was a real treat.   I'd imagine pedal sets had to be changed due to wear as well.   So race directors added more weight, restricted the turbos and made Audi use smaller tires...  They still killed.  Next year they let everyone use bigger tires.... Haywood and Stuck would circulate until every else's tires went off, then they attacked (visciously), finished one-two and won everything.   It wasn't just 4 wheel drive, it was the Quattro center diff. and the instant slingshot horsepower of the I5 using left foot braking with the right foot mashed to the floor to keep the turbo spooled.  At Watkins Glen in the rain I think they lapped the field... twice.

There was a big engineering study in the early 70s on the efficiency of cylinders vs. parasitic loss.  It showed the best combinations were I3, I5 and V10s.   Obviously, F1 went to V10s and Audi was very successful with the I5.   But other than a handful of other motors you just don't see the "efficient" designs in play.   The world is stuck on I4, V6, V8 and V12  (and Peter is correct, the road going Ferrari flats were 180 degree V12s, not boxers).

And to bring this back full circle on the air cooled vs. water cooled topic....  VW bugs are boxers...  Subarus are water cooled boxers.

Rick

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From: Doug & Terri <dnt [at] dock.net>
To: Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net>
Cc: 'The FerrariList' <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 930 Air cooled v. 512BB

Thanks Rick – what a skill for the driver – what craziness for the onlookers.

 

Yeah – Audi Quattro.  When they first came out didn’t a young girl set several Pikes Peak records driving one?

 

That and the poor Audi turbo when it first out was a disappointment – then Hans Stuck came along.  Camera inside the car focused on his feet.  WOW.  The guy looked like he was playing Flight of the Bumble bee with his feet.  Oh, and the Audi Turbo Quattro  super shined.  What was his trick?  Hans said just keep the engine full on all the time – don’t let up.  Heh heh

DOUG

 

From: Ferrari [mailto:ferrari-bounces+dnt=dock.net [at] ferrarilist.com] On Behalf Of Peter Pless
Sent: Friday, April 15, 2016 11:29 PM
To: DOUG <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: 'The FerrariList' <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 930 Air cooled v. 512BB

 

All true, Rick, but a standard 930 doesn’t do any of those things!

 

From: Rick Moseley [mailto:ramosel [at] pacbell.net]
Sent: Saturday, 16 April 2016 10:16 AM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 930 Air cooled v. 512BB

 

 

Doug, Doug, Doug....

That would depend on whether or not you like the sound of spinning turbos, waste gates whistling and pop-off valves.   When interspersed with the sounds of a sewing machine engine at full tilt boogie and add bit of exhaust....  its a thing of aural beauty.

 

But my favorite sound of that era... was water cooled.    Audi Quattro S1, Group B - Mikkola at the controls. 

2-1/2 minutes of ANGRY engineering at the hands of a master.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDRkHXMHqFo

 

aaaaahhhhhh.......

 

 

512BB?  The one with 27 (seemingly) Weber carburetors?  If so – I believe it would have had the 930 beat for sound.

 

 

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