Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Regen breaking

[Hans E. Hansen (FList]

Yeah, probably true.  There were countless service bulletins to
reprogram one module or another.  In this case, however, they went
with a decidedly low tech approach.

I just now had to go to the grocery store.  For grins, I taped a small
square of foil over the brakelight.  It's been nearly 2 years since my
first experiment, and there were some details that I was slightly
fuzzy on.

While I was certain that there is no brake light on lift-pedal-regen,
I wasn't exactly certain what goes on in that grey area between
initial brake pedal application and when the friction brakes are
activated.  My hunch was that the brake light is likely activated by a
simple plunger type switch on the brake pedal itself - just like how
it's been done for the last 60 or 80 years.  (side bar:  When I was a
12 year old kid, I worked in a parts store.  Sold many of these
plunger switches.  Seems they are still in use on some cars.)  Anyway,
the brake light comes on whenever the pedal is depressed about 1/4" or
so.  Makes no difference if the car is stationary, moving, or even
power braking (gas and brake simultaneously).

Regen power seems roughly:  Regen (in KW) ~= 75% speed (in MPH).  Yes,
really mixing measurement units, but I'm just reflecting the numbers
observed.  This makes sense, since a faster moving car has more
kinetic energy.  Also, the MG unit has a fixed gear ratio.  7.0 to 1,
I think.  So the generator is spinning really fast at speed.

Regen is stronger than engine braking in my old 308.  I live on a 1/2
mile road that averages about 25% grade (roughly 700 feet elevation
change according to my GPS).  Going downhill, the 308 in 1st gear
would not hold back the car - it would easily spin right up to redline
necessitating (obviously...) using the brakes.   The Volt holds about
25mph on just lift throttle, and it's 1000lbs + heavier.   On my other
cars, I have to drag the brakes all the way down.  You could smell
them on my Malibu until we switched to ceramic pads.  Part of the
reason that I bought the Volt is that I was wearing out a set of brake
pads on all my cars about once a year.  We just rotated tires on the
Volt, and a quick inspection guesstimated that at 30,000 miles over 2
years, I've used less than 25% of the pads on this car.

(Another reason for buying it was the 8 year warranty.  I'm sick of
repair bills on late model cars.)

Anyway, YMMV, yada, yada.

Hans.
On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 3:54 PM Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The Volt is running off of more lines of code than the F35 does, nothing 
> would surprise me on it...
>
> > On Dec 2, 2018, at 5:29 PM, Hans E. Hansen <FList [at] hanshansen.org> 
> > wrote:
> >
> > RIGHT!  Get your facts straight.
> >
> > Check out the Volt forums.  None of the cars has a brake light on
> > regen. I guess this means that they are ALL defective.   It was a long
> > topic of conversation a couple of years back.
> >
> > Hans.
> >> On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 3:26 PM Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> Then there's something wrong with your car....OR....the regen is as weak 
> >> as engine braking.
> >> The electric cars I've driven have the brake lights come on as soon as 
> >> there is enough regen to equate to using a brake pedal.
> >>
> >> Next time you try to be assertive, maybe get your facts right.
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Hans E. Hansen [mailto:FList [at] hanshansen.org]
> >> Sent: Monday, 3 December 2018 9:58 AM
> >> To: Peter Pless; The FerrariList
> >> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking
> >>
> >> ABSOLUTELY WRONG!!!!
> >>
> >> I taped a piece of foil near the center brake light on my Volt so I could 
> >> see it reflect in my rear view mirror.  Step on brakes, I can see the 
> >> light on.  Lift throttle (regen), NO LIGHT!
> >>
> >> Next time you try and guess an answer, get a car and experiment first.
> >>
> >> Hans.
> >>> On Sun, Dec 2, 2018 at 2:46 PM Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] 
> >>> pless.com.au> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The brake lights most certainly come on when you use regen on an electric 
> >>> car. The fact that some of you thought that it was possible that they 
> >>> DON'T is astounding!
> >>>
> >>> And then, once you've stopped, you can put your foot on the brake pedal 
> >>> so that the brake lights are on....just like in any other car.
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Ferrari
> >>> [mailto:ferrari-bounces+ferrarilist=pless.com.au [at] ferrarilist.com] On
> >>> Behalf Of jashburne--- via Ferrari
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, 28 November 2018 10:09 PM
> >>> To: Peter Pless
> >>> Cc: The FerrariList
> >>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking
> >>>
> >>> I’m surprised that the brake lights aren’t programmed to come on when the 
> >>> motor is actively slowing down the car. Sounds dangerous if not.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Nov 27, 2018, at 12:30 PM, Hans E. Hansen <FList [at] hanshansen.org> 
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I wouldn't call it severe.  Think of the throttle (rheostat?) as
> >>>> having a neutral position, which is part way down.  Push further, it
> >>>> accelerates.  More push, more acceleration.  Lift throttle is similar.
> >>>> Lift a little, gradual decel, etc.
> >>>>
> >>>> As for the brake light issue, my recent Thanksgiving trip to
> >>>> Portland gave me the opposite problem.  I was in stop and go congestion 
> >>>> on I-5.
> >>>> I'd lift to slow, but because the brake lights don't come on, cars
> >>>> behind me had no idea that I had started slowing until it became
> >>>> very obvious.  Given the congestion and that people tend to follow
> >>>> way too close, I thought this could be dangerous, so I "shifted"
> >>>> into regular "drive" (simulating a gas car with an auto trans) which
> >>>> forced me to use the brake pedal to slow even slightly.  Thus
> >>>> lighting up the brake lights and warning people behind me.
> >>>>
> >>>> Hans.
> >>>>> On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 10:23 PM Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] 
> >>>>> hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So, every time you let off the accelerator pedal, the regen kicks in 
> >>>>> and it’s that severe?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Peter
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>> From: Ferrari
> >>>>> <ferrari-bounces+dino308gt4=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com> on behalf
> >>>>> of Hans E. Hansen <FList [at] hanshansen.org>
> >>>>> Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2018 9:49:45 AM
> >>>>> To: PeterGT4
> >>>>> Cc: The FerrariList
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Regen breaking
> >>>>>
> >>>>> FWIW, the regen in a Chevy Volt is fairly strong, strong enough
> >>>>> that I only use the brake (NOT break) pedal for the final 20 feet
> >>>>> or so to come to a complete stop in normal traffic.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hans.
> >>>>>> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 11:22 PM Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] 
> >>>>>> hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> How much drag does it feel when you lift off the accelerator pedal? 
> >>>>>> Like, it’s going to come to a complete dead stop very, very quickly?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I wonder if cars like this (I’m talking street cars here, not F1) are 
> >>>>>> designed for people who left-foot brake. Like maybe not such a 
> >>>>>> dramatic lift-your-entire-foot-off-of-the-gas-pedal and then jamming 
> >>>>>> on the brake, but a gentle relaxing on the “gas” and slightly pressing 
> >>>>>> on the brake, more-or-less at the same time.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> As the years pass and the manual transmission disappears off the road, 
> >>>>>> nearly everyone are driving automatics now and I’ve noticed, 
> >>>>>> especially with younger, newer drivers that they’re using their left 
> >>>>>> feet for braking. How can I tell? From the continuous blinking of the 
> >>>>>> brake lights, yet not noticeable drop in speed as they drive along a 
> >>>>>> busy route. It’s not that they’re trying to slow down, but only 
> >>>>>> moderate their speed as they go along. It’s incredibly annoying.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Peter
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>>> From: Ferrari
> >>>>>> <ferrari-bounces+dino308gt4=hotmail.com [at] ferrarilist.com> on behalf
> >>>>>> of Stephen Sherman <stephensherman44 [at] gmail.com>
> >>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 23, 2018 12:36:22 PM
> >>>>>> To: PeterGT4
> >>>>>> Cc: The FerrariList
> >>>>>> Subject: [Ferrari] Regen breaking
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I have learned what F1 drivers experience (not to the extent that F1 
> >>>>>> do) when the commentators talk regenerative breaking. In my Tesla ( 
> >>>>>> standard regen ) I normally take my foot off the accelerator and the 
> >>>>>> Tesla deaccelerates like I am braking. I am not sure if depends on the 
> >>>>>> state of charge of the battery or the temperature or a combination of 
> >>>>>> the two, but there is NO or not desernable regen braking. There is a 
> >>>>>> message when I first start to drive that ‘regen braking is limited ‘, 
> >>>>>> not after I have experienced full regen braking during my drive then 
> >>>>>> when I take my foot off the accelerator NO regen. It would be nice to 
> >>>>>> have the message ‘regen braking limited ‘ on the screen, so I would be 
> >>>>>> braking harder. Just an observation.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Stephen L Sherman
> >>>>>> Sent from my iPad Pro
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