Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Brake Caliper - to split or not to split

[Peter Rychel (dino308gt4]

That’s why I said I drive accordingly. First off, you’d never be able to hit 150MPH in a U.S. Spec 308 – carb or injected. Maybe a QV, or a carb car that’s been heavily worked over. Second, as George pointed out, nearly every modern car out there is a dual brake system – front and rear circuits are separate. Master cylinders have tandem chambers and the circuits coming out of each go to a splitter valve. If a circuit fails, the splitter shuts off that side due to pressure from the good circuit, thereby you won’t lose all of your braking fluid. You won’t stop as quickly or within the shortest distance, but you will eventually stop. Third, if a person replaces/rebuilds their braking system with new seals and hoses once every decade or so, then that emergency situation can be avoided to the greatest extent.

 

The 308’s ATE rear calipers use a terrible design for the parking brake. When you pull the E-brake handle, it operates only the inboard pistons (see my photo I posted a few days ago for the break-down of the caliper). The calipers are fixed to the uprights, so you’re only getting half the braking power. And if there’s excessive gap due to improper set-up...

 

Along the same topic, I found out recently that the whole 458/488 leaking master cylinder fiasco could have been avoided if technicians bled the braking systems the old-fashioned way – one guy pumping the brakes from the inside and the other opening and closing the bleeders at the calipers. If a tech used one of those one-man pressure or vacuum systems, apparently, that causes damage to the master cylinder main seal...

 

Peter

 

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From: Anthony Bauco
Sent: February 23, 2022 4:59 AM
To: Peter Rychel
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Brake Caliper - to split or not to split

 

And what if you are doing 150MPH when the brakes fail?  And what if you were coming up on traffic or a curve?  How about that Vector, Victor?

 

On Wed, Feb 23, 2022, 12:07 AM Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

But in the context of this conversation, not really so with a nearly 40 year old Ferrari.

 

Do you remember how crappy the brakes are in a 308, even when fresh? Do you also remember how pitiful the emergency brakes are? Even when the pad spacings are properly adjusted, they’d be okay for PARKING (if the road isn’t too steep), but they wouldn’t stop worth a shit in an emergency situation. I don’t trust them. Never did and never will and I drive accordingly. When Ferrari changed the set-up to the drum-within-the-brake disc bell (328, Mondial, etc), it actually made it stop. I trust my Mondial 100 times more. I’ve triggered the ABS once already and have full confidence in it.

 

Peter

 

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From: Clarence Romero Jr.
Sent: February 22, 2022 8:12 AM
To: PeterGT4
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Brake Caliper - to split or not to split

 

Tony total brake failure is very uncommon due to the current design of the system.

There is redundancy in every major car out on the road today.

You would have to be driving a early 60’s car to be concerned about loss of all braking effectiveness.

 

 

 

 

     RF4-4EVR

 

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

 

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

 

Clyde Romero    

 

 

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On Feb 22, 2022, at 10:55 AM, Rick Moseley <ramosel [at] pacbell.net> wrote:



Do you have a rehearsed plan for what to do if your brakes fail?   If you didn’t by the time you finished reading the first sentence, it’s too late.  

 

Without the Z axis in play, driving is far less sanitizing.  Mainly because it has a larger data pool and a low gravity vector (unless you drive in mountainous regions).

 

You forgot dentists and lucky… C+

On Feb 22, 2022, at 05:01, Anthony Bauco <tbauco [at] gmail.com> wrote:



A "good" driver knows what to do when his brakes fail.  This is why doctors should never drive a Ferrari.  Driving is self-cleansing.

 

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022, 11:39 PM Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:

These components are pushing close to 40 years old. When was the last time they were replaced?

 

We’re talking about brakes. The most important piece of equipment on a car...

 

Peter

 

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From: Clarence Romero Jr.
Sent: February 21, 2022 3:29 AM
To: Peter Rychel
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Brake Caliper - to split or not to split

 

There is no need do all that 

Your making more work than needed.

 

 

     RF4-4EVR

 

Scars are Tattoos with better stories !

 

If you have no enemies, you have no character !

 

Clyde Romero    

 

 

Confidentiality Notice:  This e-mail ( including attachments ) is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections 2510-2521, and is intended only for the persons or entity to which it is addressed, and may contain confidential or privileged material.  Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is prohibited.

This email transmission, and any documents, files or previous email messages attached to it, may contain confidential information that is priviledged.  If you are not the intended recipient, or a person responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the information containes in or attached to this message is STRICTLY PROHIBITED.  If you have received this transmission in error, please immediately notify us by reply e-mail at Clyderomerof4 [at] gmail.com or  by telephone at (678 6419932)and destroy the original transmission and its attachments without reading them or saving them to disk.

 

On Feb 20, 2022, at 11:53 PM, Peter Rychel <dino308gt4 [at] hotmail.com> wrote:



If I remember correctly, you can pop the pistons out without splitting the caliper halves, if you’re just going to put new seals in.

 

I forgot to mention in my previous email about the rear calipers, that the rebuild kit for the parking brake mechanism I could only find through Dennis McCann Ferrari Parts many years ago. They have since retired and now the business is “Tom Vail’s All Ferrari Parts”. I never checked to see if he continues to stock that specific kit, nor have I checked the other suppliers (which may carry them by now. Superformance UK is a good bet. Maybe Keegan can get his hands on it too). That’s if you want to dig that deep into the rebuild...

 

Peter

 

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From: Dominic Carri
Sent: February 19, 2022 2:47 PM
To: PeterGT4
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: [Ferrari] Brake Caliper - to split or not to split

 

Before I create a problem do I need to split the calipers? Or is it possible to get the pistons out & rebuild keeping it intact?
 
Doing a bath remodel at home and promised wife tile time this weekend so questions instead of just jumping in.
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