Ferrari Mailing List: Re: IMSA at Daytona / Racing Sims (Charles Perry)

[Cody Laird (ecl3]

Charles,

I was there as well and had a similar challenge. Hope you’re doing well!

Cody

> Today's Topics:
> 
>   1. IMSA at Daytona / Racing Sims (Charles Perry)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2023 22:02:22 +0000
> From: Charles Perry <charles [at] carolinasound.com>
> To: Matt Boyd <ferrari308driver [at] gmail.com>
> Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Subject: [Ferrari] IMSA at Daytona / Racing Sims
> Message-ID:
>    <MW4PR18MB5081B35827C5959A31DCFB32A1D69 [at] 
> MW4PR18MB5081.namprd18.prod.outlook.com>
>    
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> To your question, the answer is yes. The modeling of the cars is incredible 
> and they go to extremes to model everything from power delivery to suspension 
> performance for every individual car. Their physics engines are on track with 
> the best flight simulators. Many games let you buy upgrades or mods for your 
> cars and even those are accurately simulated (changing shocks, tires, etc).
> 
> For the tracks, they are 3D laser-scanned in real life and are pretty much 
> exact matches to the real thing in every respect, including surroundings - 
> tire walls, barriers, stands, pit in/out roads, flag stands, etc). I still 
> find the simulation a little ?cold? because while I have a force-feedback 
> steering wheel for my Xbox (which simulates road forces with motors that give 
> you steering feel/feedback), there?s no accurate way for a low-cost sim like 
> mine ($300 steering wheel/pedal set and a race seat) to simulate dynamic 
> forces for braking, acceleration or g-forces. But the overall answer is yes, 
> if your controls are good, the games can be very accurate in predicting lap 
> times and the ?cheats? that they give you, like showing you the correct 
> racing line on a track, are dead-on.
> 
> So here?s a funny story that addresses your point. My first track event at 
> Daytona was in 2019. It was my 23rd track event overall, so I felt 
> comfortable registering for the intermediate group. Instructors are typically 
> not required for intermediate (although usually available if you prefer). So 
> I wanted some experience on the track before arriving. Forza 6 has a Corvette 
> C7 Z06/Z07 in the game that?s identical to my real-life car. So I did several 
> hours of training on the Daytona track in ?my car? to learn the curves and 
> the recommended racing line.
> 
> When I hit the track for real, I was very comfortable with the layout and the 
> correct line. My times were slower than the game since I was working up to 
> speed while primarily trying to keep the right line. This worked everywhere 
> except for Turn 3, known as the ?Rodriguez International Horseshoe.? The feel 
> of that line was off for me for the entire event and I never felt smooth 
> through that corner exit and into the short straight before Turn 4 (?The 
> Dogleg?).
> 
> When I got home I was trying to figure out why. I reviewed my footage from 
> the Corvette Performance Data Recorder (an onboard camera / telemetry 
> recorder that C7s had as an option). Then I went and drove the track on the 
> Xbox again and couldn?t help but laugh. When learning the track on the Xbox, 
> one of my visual markers for the correct line through Turn 3 was the big 
> Ferris wheel in the infield. Comparing my camera footage to the Xbox, I saw 
> that the Ferris wheel was about 100? further down the track in real life than 
> in the game. After investigating, I found that the Daytona Ferris wheel can 
> be moved, and it was in a different spot during my event than when the 
> developers scanned the track for Forza 6. And that bit of difference was the 
> reason I kept blowing the exit of Turn 3. So the scans are that 
> accurate/important.
> 
> More detail: 
> https://www.gtplanet.net/how-forza-motorsport-7-uses-laser-scanning-and-photogrammetry-to-create-realistic-environments/
> 
> It?s a great tool for HPDE people like me. For true racers people seem to 
> like iRacing way better, but they don?t have a decent practice mode in that 
> software (for just learning a track line as opposed to racing) and I could 
> never get my wheel to work properly with the game. I generally totaled my car 
> before even leaving the pits, so I gave up on iRacing.
> 
> -- charles
> 
> 
> From: Matt Boyd <ferrari308driver [at] gmail.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, February 01, 2023 11:03 AM
> To: Charles Perry <charles [at] carolinasound.com>
> Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] IMSA at Daytona
> 
> Out of all the report, what I'm curious about is this comment:
> 
> "My times were about 15 seconds off what I was running on Forza 6 on the Xbox 
> in the same car, but that?s to be expected when your own butt and fiberglass 
> are on the line with no reset button."
> 
> I haven't played a modern day console game in a long, long time (I loved 
> Ferrari 355 Challenge on the DreamCast and that's probably the last game I've 
> played in a similar medium). Are the games (like Forza 6 on the Xbox) so 
> realistic now that if you get a perfect lap on the game and then take the 
> exact same car out and got a perfect lap, you'd expect the times to be 
> identical (or close)?
> 
> Just curious.
> 
> Thanks for the report!
> 
> -matt
> 85 euro 308
> 
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 6:31 PM Charles Perry <charles [at] 
> carolinasound.com<mailto:charles [at] carolinasound.com>> wrote:
> I got to go to the race this year with former Lister Dennis Liu, and as 
> always, it was a lot of fun. This year we tried a new thing called Taste of 
> Daytona. To support charities, 15 of the Midway Suites were converted to 
> mini-restaurants and your ticket got you tapas-sized portions of food from 
> local restaurants. It ranged from utterly terrible (?Pigs in a blanket? from 
> Dave & Busters and cold, hard, fried ravioli from Little Italy) to completely 
> amazing (smoked salmon bruschetta from Stonewood Grill and everything from 
> Crabby?s Oceanside (bacon clam chowder, Mahi tacos and shrimp ceviche). Of 
> course all the regular fair food was available in the infield, and no 
> shortage of sideshows from camping spectators.
> 
> It was much warmer than last time I went 3 years ago, which made walking to 
> all of the various outlooks nicer. I was surprised that the best sounding 
> cars on the track were the Lamborghini Huracans. Magazines compliment the 
> sound of the street cars, but the race cars were even better unmuffled. Next 
> best were the Corvette C8R cars featuring the flat-plane crank motor that 
> shares 70% of its parts with the street Z06 version. The Aston Martins were a 
> distant third. Surprisingly, all of the GTP and LMP cars sounded terrible ? 
> like someone shooting fireworks into a clothes dryer.
> 
> There did seem to be a lot less attrition this year, and fewer on-track 
> incidents. The LMP2 class was the coolest finish with a last second pass that 
> resulted in a margin of victory of .016 seconds for James Allen in an Oreca. 
> That?s mind-blowing that a 24-hour race can come down to less than two 
> hundredths of a second. I was also amazed that this is the first major 
> sports-car race I?ve ever seen where there was not a Porsche on the podium in 
> ANY class.
> 
> Saturday before the race we went down to Ferrari of Central Florida to look 
> around. Pretty incredible inventory, including 3 LaFerraris, an Enzo, two 
> F40s, two 288GTOs and two SP1s. Also a number of SF90s and a few 296GTBs. I 
> liked the SF90 much better in person than in photographs, but the 296 was not 
> better in person. I just can?t like that car. Performance aside, it looks so 
> derivative and plain. For less money, I think I?d like a Maserati MC20 Cielo 
> better.
> 
> Monday the Ferrari Club had rented the track, so I did that event with my C7 
> Z06. Had a great time. The track isn?t particularly difficult to learn but 
> there are a couple of turns (1 and 5) where I?ve still never found a line 
> that feels right for me. My times were about 15 seconds off what I was 
> running on Forza 6 on the Xbox in the same car, but that?s to be expected 
> when your own butt and fiberglass are on the line with no reset button.  ?
> 
> There was a huge variety of cars at the track event, from a Ferrari 330GTC up 
> to a prototype lookalike (which I never identified) and a 333SP-looking car. 
> Other than that, Aston Vantage, McLaren 675LT and 720Ss, several GT3 Porsches 
> and bunch of C8 Corvettes. In my group I could keep pace with 430 Challenge 
> cars with no problem. I got consistently passed (but not lapped) by the 
> prototype car and a Mercedes GT of some variant. That car was crazy quick, 
> which I?m sure is why it?s race sibling won the GTD Pro class for WeatherTech 
> this year. Nice bunch of people and a well-run event. Only pain-point was 
> that the infield only had 98 octane fuel at $12.60 / gallon! My Corvette was 
> burning half a tank per session, so with Dennis and I both running the car in 
> different run groups we went through about $500 in fuel for the day. But so 
> worth it!!
> 
> Looking forward to going back next year!
> 
> -- charles
> 
> 
> 
> [CSC]
> 
> From: Ferrari <ferrari-bounces+charles=carolinasound.com [at] 
> ferrarilist.com<mailto:carolinasound.com [at] ferrarilist.com>> On Behalf Of 
> Jeff Kennedy
> Sent: Monday, January 30, 2023 4:22 PM
> To: Charles Perry <charles [at] carolinasound.com<mailto:charles [at] 
> carolinasound.com>>
> Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com<mailto:ferrari [at] 
> ferrarilist.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] IMSA at Daytona
> 
> I find that a bit harsh with the swipe on WeatherTech.  David MacNeil is an 
> owner of some outstanding vintage Ferrari and a supporter of the Ferrari Club 
> of America.
> 
> The 296 GT3 cars had Daytona as their first real outing.  I too wish that 
> they had far better in the race.  Were they disadvantaged by the BOP imposed 
> upon them?  Were they just too untested?  Maybe someone knows.  But in the 
> end these are customer cars; not the factory backed teams like many of the 
> other competitors are.
> 
> Risi did have their car doing well for some periods of time so there was at 
> least some showing of potential.
> 
> On Mon, Jan 30, 2023 at 3:09 PM Erik Nielsen <judge4re [at] 
> gmail.com<mailto:judge4re [at] gmail.com>> wrote:
> Ferrari doesn?t care about a racing event designed to sell floor mats.
> 
> Now, $800 sunglasses and they?ll talk.
> 
>> On Jan 30, 2023, at 11:42 AM, georgedodson [at] 
>> comcast.net<mailto:georgedodson [at] comcast.net> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Not such a great showing for Ferrari.
>> 
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