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Re: Off Topic -- No Ferrari Content -- NFC
From: LarryT (l02turnercomcast.net)
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 12:32:56 -0700 (PDT)
Hi Guys -
I hope to work on the outlets tomorrow - I'm disabled so my wife insists she helps with any physical stuff - and we'l need to move a chest of drawers to get to what I believe is the 1st outlet in the chain.

The possibility it's one of the outlets became stronger today when I tried something- we have extension cords running from a hall bathroom so we can watch TV like normally - I turned the BR circuit breaker off to test them and was mildly surprised to learn the extension cords were no longer powered - meaning the hall Ba is on the same circuit - and those outlets still work -

I see 2 possibilities - the GFI in that hall Ba has a problem or
one of the outlets in the Mbr has a problem - likely the 1st in the chain.

I also think this means a problem behind the panel is unlikely. (Whew!)

At least that's where I'll start -

As far as the suggestions about other GFIs's or AFI's is very unlikely because of the home's build date of 4/74. Strange how "74" keeps coming back to me as it relates to important events - it was the only new 911 I test drove (ever) in Tx way back when, it was the only 911 I looked at (broke the cardinal rule to look at many) and it's the year our house was built - turns out to be the place where we've lived longer than anywhere else.

Sorry - got off topic.

Thanks again for all the help!!

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Craig" <dave.craig [at] sbcglobal.net>
To: "'LarryT'" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 1:41 PM
Subject: RE: [Ferrari] Off Topic -- No Ferrari Content -- NFC


It greatly depends on where you live, some places went copper and some
places stayed aluminum until much later. I have seen both here in Oklahoma.
Heck, 1930s homes were usually knob and tube wiring. If you have been into
the wiring and it looked like copper, I would start with a voltmeter at the
outlets, if this is a bust, then go straight to the breaker and check it out
there.

Yep, worked for an electrician while I was in college.

Good luck,

Dave Craig



-----Original Message-----
From: LarryT [mailto:l02turner [at] comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:36 AM
To: Dave Craig
Cc: 'The FerrariList'
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Off Topic -- No Ferrari Content -- NFC

Thanks Dave -
   The great depth of knowledge that exists out there in Ferrari land is
such a huge help!

As I mentioened in my 1st reply - the house was built in 1974 so it sounds
like the wiring behind the panel will be the nest place to look - and
Charles suggestion to call in a professional is something I'll definately
do! I respect 110V - had a electrician working on a problem a few years ago

in the kitchen - he worked the whole problem 'hot' which made me nervous.
But he was ok.

I wonder when aluminum was no longer allowed? I had always thought it was
much longer ago (we had a home built in the 30s with alum wire IIRC). The
reason I ask is I have changed outlets and all the wires looked to be copper

but I'm no expert..

As far as the specific problem there a couple other things I should have
mentioned -
The ceiling lights & fans are unaffected.
The MBR wall outlets are the only ones affected that I know of (I'll check
other rooms).
House was built 4/74
No work done recently.
Home is 2 story, crawl space, w/attic.
Breaker Box is in garage.

Dave's comments made me wonder about something else - generally, are the
wires run up the walls, to the fixtures or into the attic and down to the
outlets? I've alwayed worried about drilling into the wall/cutting out
drywall and wonder where to avoid the wires. I'm trying to picture the last

house I saw with electrical wires run and seems like holes are cut into the
studs about 1/2 way up the wall - but I may be wrong.

Thanks again!  Very helpful!

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Craig" <dave.craig [at] sbcglobal.net>
To: "'LarryT'" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 11:58 AM
Subject: RE: [Ferrari] Off Topic -- No Ferrari Content -- NFC


Larry,

Yes, it is a very common practice to daisy chain wall outlets. And this
would be a good place to start. You can buy a cheap volt meter at Radio
Shack ($10.00 or so) and even better is Harbor Freight ($1.99 honestly!).
Measure the voltage at the wires that attach to the outlets and see if you
are getting voltage (roughly 110 VAC) at the wires. I agree with your
idea
of each end and not the middle outlets. And outlets in your bedroom
should
not be GFI.

However, there are other things that can cause this.  Bad breaker, loose
connection to the wire at the breaker (this is very common in 1970s homes
with aluminum wiring), miss-wired outlets (modern outlets have a small
piece
of brass that acts as an overcurrent fuse), and a bad connection in the
junction box in the attic.  The key will be to get a volt meter and start
figuring out where in the chain you have voltage and where you don't.
This
approach should lead you to the problem.  And be careful, 110VAC bites.

Good luck,

Dave Craig


-----Original Message-----
From: LarryT [mailto:l02turner [at] comcast.net]
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2007 10:23 AM
To: Dave Craig
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: [Ferrari] Off Topic -- No Ferrari Content -- NFC

Howdy --
Sorry about the Off Topic question - but I know I can count on ya;ll,
The wall oitlets in the Master Bedroom have lost all power. Last evening,
we were getting ready for bed and noticed the TV in our BR was turned off.
Found out all the wall outlets (4) were depowered (if that's a word). I
checked the circuit breaker - turned it completely off then back on -
without any change. Checked the GFI in the 2 bathrooms and both are ok
and
both outlets are providing power.

I can only think the wiring to the outlets is "daisy-chained" and the
1st in the link in the BR is bad - broken outlet, loose wire or some other
problem with one outlet. Without a wiring diagram I have no way of
knowing
which is 1st in the chain - although some logic tells me it one of 2
possibilities out of 4 total outlets - thinking the 2 "middle" outlets are
unlikely to be the 1st in the chain.

   Is it common practice to daisy chain the wiring to outlets?

   Any ideas about what might have caused this?  The electrical devices -
clocks, phones, lamps, etc. were all on when my wife went into the
bathroom
to shower - when she got out, the TV was off and she assumed I had turned
it

off.

Other than installing new outlets & I admit that's a long shot - I'm at
a loss. Wish I knew more about electrical
stuff --

TIA -

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
.

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