Ferrari Mailing List: Re: mileage -some are more equal than others[NFC]

[LarryT (l02turner]

Ahhh!  A diesel convert!!  Welcome to the club!  As someone who has owned 
several diesels, I agree with all your points.  The new generation that began 
in the late eighties and have been tweaked since, are very quiet - as quiet as 
gas in most situations - start instantly, get great fuel mileage and are very 
quick. 
The 81 Izusu 2 dr Coupe we had got low 40s mpg and was an excellent car if on 
the small side.  The 78 240D is old generation but they made a gazillion of 
them and they're still on the road as taxi's all over the world - except the 
US.   The big 4 cylinder is very slow and gets mid-upper 20s regardless of the 
used car adverts claiming 40s.  

The 91 300D Turbo we bought last year is an amazing car - very quiet, 30+ mpg, 
very fast - I love to hear the exhaust roar as the turbo puts all that power in 
the engine!  We sold our 99 Camry (mid 20s mpg's) with the same mileage for the 
same $$s and the MB is 3X's the car.  Very safe and solid also.  Lower body 
panels are madeof a very tough plastic which keeps the rust at bay.  There's 
also a plastic shield underneath from the front bumper to the driveshaft which 
helps with the noise and keeps everything clean also - 

The mid 90s E300 Diesel (wish I owned one) can get 40+ mpg for the careful 
driver.  A mid-sized 4 dr sedan with great safety features.  MB even put a 3.5L 
6 cyl diesel in the S class in the early 90s - the large sedan - but it had 
some connecting rod problems which could significantly shorten their life.  

For 07 they are introducing a E Class Bluetec which is a Diesel with another 
name.  It gets great mileage using the new ULSD - Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel - but 
Ca. and a few other states do not allow it to be sold in their states, denying 
themselves the obvious benefits, just out of what seems to be a hatred of 
diesels.  They're not your fathers diesel!  ;-) 

just think: if everyone used a diesel for work and most pleasure driving, the 
average Mpg's of the US would really increase - probably in the 30% range, who 
knows?

Enough thinking for one evening --see ya!

Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Britt2Asa [at] aol.com 
  To: l02turner [at] comcast.net 
  Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com 
  Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 4:52 PM
  Subject: Re: [Ferrari] mileage -some are more equal than others[NFC]


  Hi All,

  I have to chime in here (as a native Floridian and current Englander....) I 
dont see the problem with raising the fuel CAFE standards. New technology will 
find a way to achieve great fuel economy. Am I the only one who finds it a bit 
replusive for so many people to be driving around in giant SUVs when they are 
the only ones in the car? Yes, ok when you are towing a boat, hauling 
equipment, ect then there is a need but do I as a committed sports car driver 
really care if some dumbo driving a truck the size of a house and using up all 
the road space (and usually swerving all over the road as they are shoving 
another burger into thir overstuffed belly) has to pay more for gas? No I don't 
and if CAFE means they can't make 7.0 truck engines anymore who cares? Trucks 
are replusive as are the majority of people who use them as every day drivers.

  BTW the auto industry is saying to congress to raise demand for better fuel 
economy by raising gas taxes and NOT by mandating that they build more fuel 
efficient cars. Of course either mandating higher CAFE OR raising gas taxes 
would both in theory reach the same solution; people will buy more fuel 
efficient cars EXCEPT that no government is ever going to raise fuel taxes in 
the states. Its a sure way to not get re-elected and the manufacturers know 
this so while they say "yes lets have better fuel economy and less greenhouse 
gas ect ect" they want it done thru taxes. I personally would rather have lower 
taxes and mandated CAFE standards driven thru technology and enterprise cause 
thats what keeps Americas economy running and growing...

  On another point after years of antipathy, the ever increasing price of 
petrol here in the UK (currently at 8.00 dollars a gallon) and the huge taxes 
placed on cars based on CO2 emissions I finally had to switch to a diesel car. 
First a 2.0 Vauxhall Vectra, then a new BMW 320d and now a new BMW 530d. You 
know what? They are fantastic cars to drive. The latest diesels (especially the 
BMW/Merc/Audi line) have huge torque, great mileage, and are pretty darn quiet. 
I drove to London Friday and got 42mpg in mixed highway/city driving in my big 
old 5 series. Its a quick car too and with the torque it will overtake just 
about anything on the road. When I move back stateside I will miss not being 
able to get
  a diesel and regardless of the cost of fuel its great to be able to go 700 
miles on a tank. I don't understand why ever midsize american rental car I seem 
to get everytime I am in the USA for business seems to get about 25mpg when 
that is unheard of over here. Thats what the taxes have forced out of the 
european car manufacturers.

  Personally I think you are better off having it driven thru CAFE standards 
rather than thru taxes....either way better fuel miles is going to happen one 
way or the other.

  Britt in the UK



    Hi Doug,
      Sadly, the '07 Bluetec E320 - a very clean diesel - is not offered for 
    sale in Ca or the states that follow lockstep the CARB reqmnts.  Don't know 
    what happens if someone wants to move *in*to Ca (why??) who already owns a 
    07 320 Bluetec.  Maybe make them sell it or stop them at the border?  Can't 
    stop illegal aliens but they'll keep the clean burning diesels out!!  <LOL>

    See ya!!
    ;-)

    Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
    www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
    Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
    PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
    Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
    Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
    .
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: "Doug and Terri Anderson" <dnt [at] dock.net>
    To: "LarryT" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
    Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
    Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2007 1:17 AM
    Subject: Re: [Ferrari] mileage -some are more equal than others[NFC]


    >Hi Larry - so far, California doesn't smog check diesels.  Oh you can bet 
    >they are thinking about it but so far have no real good test for it. 
    >Ohhhh, I guess on the big rigs get a Ringelman Smoke Chart test but that's 
    >about the extent of it.
    >DOUG
    >
    >----- Original Message ----- 
    >From: "LarryT" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
    >To: "DOUG" <dnt [at] dock.net>
    >Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
    >Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 10:24 AM
    >Subject: Re: [Ferrari] mileage -some are more equal than others[NFC]
    >
    >
    >>Hi Ken,
    >>You wrote<<It's possible to get  close to 30 mpg in a modern common-rail
    >>diesel, after that you have
    >>to go to tiny little cars>>
    >>
    >>You may need to modify your ponitifcation (always wanted to say that) a
    >>little.  While cost is ceetainly a component, diesels have been getting 
    >>30
    >>and higher in mid sized cars for a while.  Our '91 Mercedes 300D 2.5T is 
    >>a 4
    >>door, 3000+ # sedan which seats 5 adults and we consistantly get 
    >>30-33mpg.
    >>While it was $40k new IIRC, I paid $8k for it last year when it had 99k
    >>miles on it.  The newer 95 E300D was capable of 40mpg's under the right
    >>conditions and the new E300 BlueTec - the identification to diesel has 
    >>been
    >>completely dropped has a EPA highway  estimate of 37mpg.
    >>
    >>Unfortunately, Ca, Me, Ma,NY &Vt - have all passed emissions limits 
    >>which
    >>even this *very* clean diesel cannot yet meet unless it uses a additive
    >>system which is not yet approved.  The solution is obvious - everyone 
    >>should
    >>move from those states and buy a diesel to  get a dramatic improvement in
    >>MPGs.
    >>
    >>Prior (by about 3 months) to buying the 91 300D we had bought our 
    >>daughters
    >>99 Camry - with 99k miles for the same $8k.  It got around 25mpg's and 
    >>did
    >>not feel anywhere near as safe.   Add to that,  the MB is larger, *much*
    >>easier to repair, has eternal good looks, gets MB road service for the 
    >>life
    >>of the car, etc., etc.  I opened the hood on te Camry and didint see
    >>anything I'd feel comfortable working on.  Did the same with the Mercedes
    >>and it was like seeing an old friend.
    >>
    >>But I still don't want congress deciding what cars will be in the 
    >>showrooms.
    >>The market place will decide - if people want hybrids, H-powered cars, 
    >>etc,
    >>the car makers will build them!  I seem to recall Toy or Hon stopping the
    >>sale of their Hybrid because of poor sales?
    >>
    >>Ken earlier wrote:<<Lets get the President a nice four place Cessna! No
    >>>>more private jets for Congressional flights,>>
    >>
    >>Congress has a habit of creating all kinds of Draconian laws for the rest 
    >>of
    >>us while making sure they are exempt from the stupid laws.   remember the
    >>laws recognizing equality of all people?  Like women, African-Americans,
    >>etc?  Didn;t apply to Congress.   They want a ceetain % of an inductry to 
    >>be
    >>filled with a certain type of person, but not in Congress!  Afterall they
    >>think they're royalty why should they have to do what the little people 
    >>do?
    >>
    >>Sorry - I gotta stop -
    >>Later ya'll -
    >>
    >>Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)
    >>www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts
    >>Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil
    >>PORSCHE POSTERS!  youroil.net
    >>Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs
    >>Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/
    >>.
    >>----- Original Message ----- 
    >>From: "ken rentiers" <rentiers [at] mac.com>
    >>To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
    >>Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
    >>Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 12:29 PM
    >>Subject: Re: [Ferrari] mileage -some are more equal than others[NFC]
    >>
    >>
    >>>Norm:
    >>>
    >>>{rant}
    >>>
    >>>It's all just knee-jerk symbolism. You can't repeal the Laws of
    >>>Physics no matter how many stupid laws you pass. It's possible to get
    >>>close to 30 mpg in a modern common-rail diesel, after that you have
    >>>to go to tiny little cars. Watch the highway death rates climb! Try
    >>>passing an 18 wheeler in your Toyota Echo! OOoooooops - splaaaat!
    >>>
    >>>America - save 5% on your gasoline consumption today: get off your
    >>>fat asses and lose 100 pounds!!!
    >>>
    >>>Hybrids use more energy than current gasoline engines if you consider
    >>>the total requirements for manufacture, and where are we going to
    >>>dispose of all those lead-acid batteries? Hydrogen cars require
    >>>hydrogen, short of fusion or geothermal power, cracking the hydrogen
    >>>is a net loss as well. Ethanol is another big joke, add in the power
    >>>and water needed to grow all that Iowa corn and it's almost a perfect
    >>>wash. Question for the Presidential Candidates -if ethanol is such a
    >>>good solution why are we subsidizing it?
    >>>
    >>>Plus we are not short of oil. We are short of refineries. Here's how
    >>>to save 50% of America's fossil fuel use; build nukes to replace the
    >>>Edwardian coal-burning  stationary plants. Thanks Jane Fonda, you
    >>>singlehandedly set us back fifty years. China is building 50 new
    >>>nukes as I write this; there's your $%^&* China Syndrome!!! May your
    >>>tits get caught in a windmill!
    >>>
    >>>{/rant}
    >>>
    >>>ken
    >>>
    >>>On Jun 22, 2007, at 10:50 AM, Alfaowner wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Ken:
    >>>>
    >>>>Remember when Bush chastised us Americans because we are addicted
    >>>>to foreign
    >>>>oil?  And, then spent the next couple of weeks flying all over the
    >>>>place?
    >>>>I'm just glad it was jet fuel, not 112 octane race fuel he was
    >>>>wasting on
    >>>>those political trips.
    >>>>
    >>>>Norm
    >>>>
    >>>>-----Original Message-----
    >>>>From: ken rentiers [mailto:rentiers [at] mac.com]
    >>>>Sent: Friday, June 22, 2007 11:40 AM
    >>>>To: Norm
    >>>>Cc: The FerrariList
    >>>>Subject: [Ferrari] mileage -some are more equal than others[NFC]
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>The average US driver does 11,000 miles a year. At 25 MPG that's 440
    >>>>gallons of gasoline a year.
    >>>>
    >>>>Air Force One is a 747. Cruising at 576 mph it burns 3378 gallons an
    >>>>hour of jet fuel. Enough for 7.6 years of commuting by Joe Schmuck.
    >>>>
    >>>>The US Senate has just voted to raise the CAFE to 35 mpg by 2020.
    >>>>
    >>>>Why stop there? Lets get the President a nice four place Cessna! No
    >>>>more private jets for Congressional flights, let them eat cake on
    >>>>Amtrak!
    >>>>
    >>>>ken _________________________________________________________________
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    >>>
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  BR in the UK
  1986 328GTS (LHD 89,940km) Died August 19, 2006 Shrewsbury UK
  1980 400i (RHD 72,000 miles)
  Searching for the right 512TR
  2003 BMW 530d 


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