Ferrari Mailing List: Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)

(continued)

I'm not so sure - have you seen what those plastic bumpers can look  

like after just a few years?

And, maybe it is just me, but it seems like you just don;t see 10-15  

year old  cars on the street like you used to.  I don;t know where  

they are all going, but it isn't here.

Scottie

On Dec 4, 2008, at 1:57 PM, E M wrote:

One more thing about modern cars.  We keep saying currant cars will  

be hard

to restore in 20-30 years, and they will, with some parts of them  

anyway.

But if you look at the materials being used in a lot of today's  

cars, the

shelf life of today's cars are much longer than cars from the 60's  

and 70's,

even the 80's.

If you bought a car in the 60's, by the early 80's, it was toast and  

full or

rust.  Today's use of aluminum, plastic, and MUCH better corrosion

protection means, many of todays higher end cars won't need the  

attention to

the bodies.  Not to anywhere near the same degree anyway.

As for all the electronics and stuff, guess what types of companies  

all

those xbox playing kids are going to be starting in 10 years.  Not to

mention the growing car industry in India, and all the old names now  

setting

up shop there.  Buying a ECU for your Aston with a "made in India"  

label

won't be bad, in fact, you'll demand it as it will be original  

equipment.

:-)

The world's a changing, and so are cars.  Someone will always step  

forward

to fill a need if there's a little money to be made at it.

Ed
911SC

2008/12/4 Dan Warlick <edwf430 [at] att.net>

F40,F50,Enzo.......Other than the ultra collectibles like these I  

am at a

loss LS.
Dan
----- Original Message -----
From: "LS" <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
To: "Daniel" <edwf430 [at] att.net>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on
Tuesday)

Most modern cars are plastic or sheet metal anyways.

Look at any volume produced car like the M3, 911, Corvette,  

etc.They share

so many parts with other models within their manufacturer. If your  

911GT3

climate control unit goes bad, go on ebay and buy one off of a  

parted out

Boxter for $50.

I know nothing about Porsches, so I don't know if this example is  

true, but

I'm making a point about shared platforms.

A friend's Hartge E90 BMW cost $225k new and has stamped sheet  

metal lower

control arms in the rear!!! Those might've cost $2.56 to produce by  

a 7 yr

old in China.

There are companies out there that will repair circuit boards for  

modern

Euro car electronics. I had an Audi A4 B5 that had many terrifying

electronic glitches. There were companies that would repair bad  

pixels on

electronic displays, repair faulty ABS units and other nutty, labor
intensive repairs for literally nothing.

The point I'm making is that the complexity of modern cars is  

spawning

support industries that we didn't have in the 1980s and 1990s.

Add that to the sheer volume of cars being produced, even for  

Ferrari, and

the chances of keeping your modern Chinese plastic F430 goes up  

quite a

bit.
(haha)

The real question is...what car produced today is going to be worth
restoring 20 yrs from now???

LS

----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Lindsay <rolindsay [at] yahoo.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:51:51 AM

Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with  

Electronics...was

Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)

Oh, that's exactly what I'm doing. This car isn't worth crap as a  

collector

car so any money spent is in the same category as installing  

ceiling fans

in

a house. They may be nice but don't add a cent to the value. I'm  

going to

create a straight-fold foam-core mockup, tweaking the dimensions for
correct
alignment, then transfer that design to sheet metal, to be formed and
welded
in place. This is alsso known as, "a good excuse to buy a welder."

rick

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with

Electronics...was

Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)
To: "Rick Lindsay" <rolindsay [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 10:46 AM
It may be cheaper to make the part yourself, but it's
certainly available in some way correct?

LS

----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Lindsay <rolindsay [at] yahoo.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:58:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old
man rambling on Tuesday)

Exactly! I have a 1961 Mercedes 180b. It has a rusty
radius arm mount. The 4" x 12" piece of formed
sheet metal is $800 from the M-B Classic Center - and that
doesn't include the $79 mount point or the $39 rubber
donut - and does not (obviously) include
installation/welding.

rick

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car

with Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.
Old man rambling on Tuesday)

To: "rolindsay" <rolindsay [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList"

<ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>

Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:48 AM
The $300k was to build an entire car from scratch with
custom bodywork, wheels, chassis, etc.

The standalone engine management is much, much,
much cheaper and will be even less so in 20 yrs.

Benz has started manufacturing all of their vintage

parts

with super markups for old restorations to run the
private parts suppliers out of business.

Why wouldn't Ferrari do the same thing?

LS

________________________________
From: Michael James

<cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>

To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:52:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car

with

Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.

Old

man rambling on Tuesday)

Agreed, but when it comes time to fix that F1 tranny

in 20

years, I don't think there will be many owners

who

will pony-up anything close to $300K to fix or upgrade

a 360

F1 to keep it going. In another ten years, the 360

will be

lucky to maintain 20% of its original book-value. If

the

value to reverse-engineer something surpasses the

total

value of the car....the owner is screwed (or needs to

be

REALLY in-love with the machine) . Much of the
Tranny's electronics are made by Magnetti Marelli

-

they're not well-known for keeping 'NOS'

parts

on the shelf forever.

Then again, Ferrari and some of their OEM parts

suppliers

are probably scratching their heads over how many of

their

'old cars' they thought would have disappeared

long

ago are being preserved and restored in quantities

close to

original production numbers. I know people who are
fabricating small plastic parts in their own

garage for

vintage Ferraris...stuff that's been NLA for
years....the Marque is enjoying a very loyal and

dedicated

fan base that considers NOTHING Ferrari-related to be
disposable. Will this continue?

Hey, I hope I'm wrong....the future will be
interesting!

M

--- On Wed, 12/3/08, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>

wrote:

From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car

with

Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.

Old

man rambling on Tuesday)
To: "Michael"

<Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>

Cc: "The FerrariList"
<ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 6:46 PM

Jim, good to hear from you. Where have you been?

I believe Michael James' concern was that as the

modern

cars like the 360
get older, the complex electronics would make

restoration

or maint impossible.

When most of these cars need such a solution, they

will

probably be too old
(over 20 yrs in some states) to need to be emissions
compliant.

The F355 will be eligible for antique tags in 6 yrs

in my

state!

Not only will the E30 M3 be driven on the street

legally,

it will retain cats
and will pass 1989 tailpipe standards! Although, in

his

area, he doesn't
have to comply because the car will be exempt.

They are doing it simply as a challenge.

Regarding the motor...they were on the dyno last month

with

Dinan's new V10
stroker, 5.6 liters I believe. They will have 600bhp

in a

2800lb E30 M3!

He spent something like $30k for a new V10 motor just

to

tune and setup the
Pectel mgmt. After 1 day of dyno testing by Pectel, it

was

trash and they threw
the engine away. Onto engine #2...

He has $300k into this whole project is not close to

being

done. There is so
much custom bodywork, fabrication, and over the top

detail

work in the whole
build.

The next project is to redo one of the new M3s, throw

away

all of the
factory crap and replace with real hardware. 700bhp

turbo

5.6 V10, hidden
rollcage, sequential Riccardo box, Comp dry

sump-Accusump

system, carbon sun
visors, fire extinguisher on the A pillar, etc.

Besides...emissions? Where's that male body spray?

LS

----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Conforti <lndshrk [at] xmission.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 3:43:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car

with

Electronics...was Re:
Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on
Tuesday)

At 09:00 AM 12/3/2008 -0800, LS wrote:

A friend of mine is building an '89 E30 M3

with a

2008 BMW M5 v10

drivetrain and suspension. Instead of cracking the

factory ECU

programming, he trashed it and is having Dinan

assist

him with a

standalone Pectel unit to takeover everything. It

was

claimed that the

modern V10 BMW could not run without proprietary

BMW

ECU control. It is a

ridiculous amount of work, but he is pioneering it

for

the BMW world. It

is only the beginning.

Of course said vehicle can NEVER be operated on any
public highway in
the USA.

(Seriously)

The chances of getting caught are low, but if he

does -

I hope he's got
incredibly
deep pockets because it's rather expensive

fighting

the US EPA in court.

This, of course, is why you DON'T

"trash"

the factory ECU.
ROFLMAO.

JC

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Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)	<– Date –> <– Thread –>
From: Ferrarisimo [at] Comcast.net (Ferrarisimocomcast.net)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:13:00 -0800 (PST)