Ferrari Mailing List: Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)

[E M (pokiebaron]

You must drive an old Mercedes W140?  hee hee.

Ed
911SC

2008/12/4 <cmlf1 [at] optonline.net>

> The wire harnesses weigh in the hundreds of lbs. and have thousands of
> connections and numerous control modules etc.


> Carl
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dan Warlick
> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:39 pm
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
> Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on
> Tuesday)
> To: cmlf1 [at] optonline.net
> Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
>
> > F40,F50,Enzo.......Other than the ultra collectibles like these
> > I am at a
> > loss LS.
> > Dan
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "LS"
> > To: "Daniel"
> > Cc: "The FerrariList"
> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:30 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
> > Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man
> > rambling on
> > Tuesday)
> >
> >
> > Most modern cars are plastic or sheet metal anyways.
> >
> > Look at any volume produced car like the M3, 911, Corvette,
> > etc.They share
> > so many parts with other models within their manufacturer. If
> > your 911GT3
> > climate control unit goes bad, go on ebay and buy one off of a
> > parted out
> > Boxter for $50.
> >
> > I know nothing about Porsches, so I don't know if this example
> > is true, but
> > I'm making a point about shared platforms.
> >
> > A friend's Hartge E90 BMW cost $225k new and has stamped sheet
> > metal lower
> > control arms in the rear!!! Those might've cost $2.56 to produce
> > by a 7 yr
> > old in China.
> >
> > There are companies out there that will repair circuit boards
> > for modern
> > Euro car electronics. I had an Audi A4 B5 that had many
> > terrifying
> > electronic glitches. There were companies that would repair bad
> > pixels on
> > electronic displays, repair faulty ABS units and other nutty,
> > labor
> > intensive repairs for literally nothing.
> >
> > The point I'm making is that the complexity of modern cars is
> > spawning
> > support industries that we didn't have in the 1980s and 1990s.
> >
> > Add that to the sheer volume of cars being produced, even for
> > Ferrari, and
> > the chances of keeping your modern Chinese plastic F430 goes up
> > quite a bit.
> > (haha)
> >
> > The real question is...what car produced today is going to be
> > worth
> > restoring 20 yrs from now???
> >
> > LS
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Rick Lindsay
> > To: LS
> > Cc: The FerrariList
> > Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:51:51 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
> > Electronics...was
> > Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)
> >
> > Oh, that's exactly what I'm doing. This car isn't worth crap as
> > a collector
> > car so any money spent is in the same category as installing
> > ceiling fans in
> > a house. They may be nice but don't add a cent to the value. I'm
> > going to
> > create a straight-fold foam-core mockup, tweaking the dimensions
> > for correct
> > alignment, then transfer that design to sheet metal, to be
> > formed and welded
> > in place. This is alsso known as, "a good excuse to buy a welder."
> >
> >
> >
> > rick
> >
> > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, LS wrote:
> >
> > > From: LS
> > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
> > Electronics...was
> > > Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)
> > > To: "Rick Lindsay"
> > > Cc: "The FerrariList"
> > > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 10:46 AM
> > > It may be cheaper to make the part yourself, but it's
> > > certainly available in some way correct?
> > >
> > > LS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Rick Lindsay
> > > To: LS
> > > Cc: The FerrariList
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:58:40 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
> > > Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old
> > > man rambling on Tuesday)
> > >
> > > Exactly! I have a 1961 Mercedes 180b. It has a rusty
> > > radius arm mount. The 4" x 12" piece of formed
> > > sheet metal is $800 from the M-B Classic Center - and that
> > > doesn't include the $79 mount point or the $39 rubber
> > > donut - and does not (obviously) include
> > > installation/welding.
> > >
> > > rick
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, LS wrote:
> > >
> > > > From: LS
> > > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
> > > with Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.
> > > Old man rambling on Tuesday)
> > > > To: "rolindsay"
> > > > Cc: "The FerrariList"
> > >
> > > > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:48 AM
> > > > The $300k was to build an entire car from scratch with
> > > > custom bodywork, wheels, chassis, etc.
> > > >
> > > > The standalone engine management is much, much,
> > > > much cheaper and will be even less so in 20 yrs.
> > > >
> > > > Benz has started manufacturing all of their vintage
> > > parts
> > > > with super markups for old restorations to run the
> > > > private parts suppliers out of business.
> > > >
> > > > Why wouldn't Ferrari do the same thing?
> > > >
> > > > LS
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ________________________________
> > > > From: Michael James
> > >
> > > > To: LS
> > > > Cc: The FerrariList
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:52:40 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
> > > with
> > > > Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.
> > > Old
> > > > man rambling on Tuesday)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Agreed, but when it comes time to fix that F1 tranny
> > > in 20
> > > > years, I don't think there will be many owners
> > > who
> > > > will pony-up anything close to $300K to fix or upgrade
> > > a 360
> > > > F1 to keep it going. In another ten years, the 360
> > > will be
> > > > lucky to maintain 20% of its original book-value. If
> > > the
> > > > value to reverse-engineer something surpasses the
> > > total
> > > > value of the car....the owner is screwed (or needs to
> > > be
> > > > REALLY in-love with the machine) . Much of the
> > > > Tranny's electronics are made by Magnetti Marelli
> > > -
> > > > they're not well-known for keeping 'NOS'
> > > parts
> > > > on the shelf forever.
> > > >
> > > > Then again, Ferrari and some of their OEM parts
> > > suppliers
> > > > are probably scratching their heads over how many of
> > > their
> > > > 'old cars' they thought would have disappeared
> > > long
> > > > ago are being preserved and restored in quantities
> > > close to
> > > > original production numbers. I know people who are
> > > > fabricating small plastic parts in their own
> > > garage for
> > > > vintage Ferraris...stuff that's been NLA for
> > > > years....the Marque is enjoying a very loyal and
> > > dedicated
> > > > fan base that considers NOTHING Ferrari-related to be
> > > > disposable. Will this continue?
> > > >
> > > > Hey, I hope I'm wrong....the future will be
> > > > interesting!
> > > >
> > > > M
> > > >
> > > > --- On Wed, 12/3/08, LS
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > From: LS
> > > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
> > > with
> > > > Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.
> > > Old
> > > > man rambling on Tuesday)
> > > > To: "Michael"
> > >
> > > > Cc: "The FerrariList"
> > > >
> > > > Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 6:46 PM
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jim, good to hear from you. Where have you been?
> > > >
> > > > I believe Michael James' concern was that as the
> > > modern
> > > > cars like the 360
> > > > get older, the complex electronics would make
> > > restoration
> > > > or maint impossible.
> > > >
> > > > When most of these cars need such a solution, they
> > > will
> > > > probably be too old
> > > > (over 20 yrs in some states) to need to be emissions
> > > > compliant.
> > > >
> > > > The F355 will be eligible for antique tags in 6 yrs
> > > in my
> > > > state!
> > > >
> > > > Not only will the E30 M3 be driven on the street
> > > legally,
> > > > it will retain cats
> > > > and will pass 1989 tailpipe standards! Although, in
> > > his
> > > > area, he doesn't
> > > > have to comply because the car will be exempt.
> > > >
> > > > They are doing it simply as a challenge.
> > > >
> > > > Regarding the motor...they were on the dyno last month
> > > with
> > > > Dinan's new V10
> > > > stroker, 5.6 liters I believe. They will have 600bhp
> > > in a
> > > > 2800lb E30 M3!
> > > >
> > > > He spent something like $30k for a new V10 motor just
> > > to
> > > > tune and setup the
> > > > Pectel mgmt. After 1 day of dyno testing by Pectel, it
> > > was
> > > > trash and they threw
> > > > the engine away. Onto engine #2...
> > > >
> > > > He has $300k into this whole project is not close to
> > > being
> > > > done. There is so
> > > > much custom bodywork, fabrication, and over the top
> > > detail
> > > > work in the whole
> > > > build.
> > > >
> > > > The next project is to redo one of the new M3s, throw
> > > away
> > > > all of the
> > > > factory crap and replace with real hardware. 700bhp
> > > turbo
> > > > 5.6 V10, hidden
> > > > rollcage, sequential Riccardo box, Comp dry
> > > sump-Accusump
> > > > system, carbon sun
> > > > visors, fire extinguisher on the A pillar, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Besides...emissions? Where's that male body spray?
> > > >
> > > > LS
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: Jim Conforti
> > > > To: LS
> > > > Cc: The FerrariList
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 3:43:05 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
> > > with
> > > > Electronics...was Re:
> > > > Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on
> > > > Tuesday)
> > > >
> > > > At 09:00 AM 12/3/2008 -0800, LS wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >A friend of mine is building an '89 E30 M3
> > > with a
> > > > 2008 BMW M5 v10
> > > > >drivetrain and suspension. Instead of cracking the
> > > > factory ECU
> > > > >programming, he trashed it and is having Dinan
> > > assist
> > > > him with a
> > > > >standalone Pectel unit to takeover everything. It
> > > was
> > > > claimed that the
> > > > >modern V10 BMW could not run without proprietary
> > > BMW
> > > > ECU control. It is a
> > > > >ridiculous amount of work, but he is pioneering it
> > > for
> > > > the BMW world. It
> > > > >is only the beginning.
> > > >
> > > > Of course said vehicle can NEVER be operated on any
> > > > public highway in
> > > > the USA.
> > > >
> > > > (Seriously)
> > > >
> > > > The chances of getting caught are low, but if he
> > > does -
> > > > I hope he's got
> > > > incredibly
> > > > deep pockets because it's rather expensive
> > > fighting
> > > > the US EPA in court.
> > > >
> > > > This, of course, is why you DON'T
> > > "trash"
> > > > the factory ECU.
> > > > ROFLMAO.
> > > >
> > > > JC
> > > >
> > > >
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