| Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday) | <– Date –> <– Thread –> |
From: cmlf1 (cmlf1 optonline.net)
|
|
| Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 17:30:42 -0800 (PST) | |
My 450 SEL will not die either, and so simple to do just about anything!
----- Original Message -----
From: E M
To: cmlf1 [at] optonline.net
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe:
Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)
You must drive an old Mercedes W140? hee hee.
Ed
911SC
2008/12/4 <cmlf1 [at] optonline.net>
The wire harnesses weigh in the hundreds of lbs. and have thousands of
connections and numerous control modules etc.
Carl
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Warlick
Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)
To: cmlf1 [at] optonline.net
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
> F40,F50,Enzo.......Other than the ultra collectibles like these
> I am at a
> loss LS.
> Dan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LS"
> To: "Daniel"
> Cc: "The FerrariList"
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:30 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
> Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man
> rambling on
> Tuesday)
>
>
> Most modern cars are plastic or sheet metal anyways.
>
> Look at any volume produced car like the M3, 911, Corvette,
> etc.They share
> so many parts with other models within their manufacturer. If
> your 911GT3
> climate control unit goes bad, go on ebay and buy one off of a
> parted out
> Boxter for $50.
>
> I know nothing about Porsches, so I don't know if this example
> is true, but
> I'm making a point about shared platforms.
>
> A friend's Hartge E90 BMW cost $225k new and has stamped sheet
> metal lower
> control arms in the rear!!! Those might've cost $2.56 to produce
> by a 7 yr
> old in China.
>
> There are companies out there that will repair circuit boards
> for modern
> Euro car electronics. I had an Audi A4 B5 that had many
> terrifying
> electronic glitches. There were companies that would repair bad
> pixels on
> electronic displays, repair faulty ABS units and other nutty,
> labor
> intensive repairs for literally nothing.
>
> The point I'm making is that the complexity of modern cars is
> spawning
> support industries that we didn't have in the 1980s and 1990s.
>
> Add that to the sheer volume of cars being produced, even for
> Ferrari, and
> the chances of keeping your modern Chinese plastic F430 goes up
> quite a bit.
> (haha)
>
> The real question is...what car produced today is going to be
> worth
> restoring 20 yrs from now???
>
> LS
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Rick Lindsay
> To: LS
> Cc: The FerrariList
> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:51:51 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
> Electronics...was
> Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)
>
> Oh, that's exactly what I'm doing. This car isn't worth crap as
> a collector
> car so any money spent is in the same category as installing
> ceiling fans in
> a house. They may be nice but don't add a cent to the value. I'm
> going to
> create a straight-fold foam-core mockup, tweaking the dimensions
> for correct
> alignment, then transfer that design to sheet metal, to be
> formed and welded
> in place. This is alsso known as, "a good excuse to buy a welder."
>
>
>
> rick
>
> --- On Thu, 12/4/08, LS wrote:
>
> > From: LS
> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
> Electronics...was
> > Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)
> > To: "Rick Lindsay"
> > Cc: "The FerrariList"
> > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 10:46 AM
> > It may be cheaper to make the part yourself, but it's
> > certainly available in some way correct?
> >
> > LS
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: Rick Lindsay
> > To: LS
> > Cc: The FerrariList
> > Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:58:40 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
> > Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old
> > man rambling on Tuesday)
> >
> > Exactly! I have a 1961 Mercedes 180b. It has a rusty
> > radius arm mount. The 4" x 12" piece of formed
> > sheet metal is $800 from the M-B Classic Center - and that
> > doesn't include the $79 mount point or the $39 rubber
> > donut - and does not (obviously) include
> > installation/welding.
> >
> > rick
> >
> >
> > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, LS wrote:
> >
> > > From: LS
> > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
> > with Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.
> > Old man rambling on Tuesday)
> > > To: "rolindsay"
> > > Cc: "The FerrariList"
> >
> > > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:48 AM
> > > The $300k was to build an entire car from scratch with
> > > custom bodywork, wheels, chassis, etc.
> > >
> > > The standalone engine management is much, much,
> > > much cheaper and will be even less so in 20 yrs.
> > >
> > > Benz has started manufacturing all of their vintage
> > parts
> > > with super markups for old restorations to run the
> > > private parts suppliers out of business.
> > >
> > > Why wouldn't Ferrari do the same thing?
> > >
> > > LS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________
> > > From: Michael James
> >
> > > To: LS
> > > Cc: The FerrariList
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:52:40 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
> > with
> > > Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.
> > Old
> > > man rambling on Tuesday)
> > >
> > >
> > > Agreed, but when it comes time to fix that F1 tranny
> > in 20
> > > years, I don't think there will be many owners
> > who
> > > will pony-up anything close to $300K to fix or upgrade
> > a 360
> > > F1 to keep it going. In another ten years, the 360
> > will be
> > > lucky to maintain 20% of its original book-value. If
> > the
> > > value to reverse-engineer something surpasses the
> > total
> > > value of the car....the owner is screwed (or needs to
> > be
> > > REALLY in-love with the machine) . Much of the
> > > Tranny's electronics are made by Magnetti Marelli
> > -
> > > they're not well-known for keeping 'NOS'
> > parts
> > > on the shelf forever.
> > >
> > > Then again, Ferrari and some of their OEM parts
> > suppliers
> > > are probably scratching their heads over how many of
> > their
> > > 'old cars' they thought would have disappeared
> > long
> > > ago are being preserved and restored in quantities
> > close to
> > > original production numbers. I know people who are
> > > fabricating small plastic parts in their own
> > garage for
> > > vintage Ferraris...stuff that's been NLA for
> > > years....the Marque is enjoying a very loyal and
> > dedicated
> > > fan base that considers NOTHING Ferrari-related to be
> > > disposable. Will this continue?
> > >
> > > Hey, I hope I'm wrong....the future will be
> > > interesting!
> > >
> > > M
> > >
> > > --- On Wed, 12/3/08, LS
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > From: LS
> > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
> > with
> > > Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.
> > Old
> > > man rambling on Tuesday)
> > > To: "Michael"
> >
> > > Cc: "The FerrariList"
> > >
> > > Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 6:46 PM
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim, good to hear from you. Where have you been?
> > >
> > > I believe Michael James' concern was that as the
> > modern
> > > cars like the 360
> > > get older, the complex electronics would make
> > restoration
> > > or maint impossible.
> > >
> > > When most of these cars need such a solution, they
> > will
> > > probably be too old
> > > (over 20 yrs in some states) to need to be emissions
> > > compliant.
> > >
> > > The F355 will be eligible for antique tags in 6 yrs
> > in my
> > > state!
> > >
> > > Not only will the E30 M3 be driven on the street
> > legally,
> > > it will retain cats
> > > and will pass 1989 tailpipe standards! Although, in
> > his
> > > area, he doesn't
> > > have to comply because the car will be exempt.
> > >
> > > They are doing it simply as a challenge.
> > >
> > > Regarding the motor...they were on the dyno last month
> > with
> > > Dinan's new V10
> > > stroker, 5.6 liters I believe. They will have 600bhp
> > in a
> > > 2800lb E30 M3!
> > >
> > > He spent something like $30k for a new V10 motor just
> > to
> > > tune and setup the
> > > Pectel mgmt. After 1 day of dyno testing by Pectel, it
> > was
> > > trash and they threw
> > > the engine away. Onto engine #2...
> > >
> > > He has $300k into this whole project is not close to
> > being
> > > done. There is so
> > > much custom bodywork, fabrication, and over the top
> > detail
> > > work in the whole
> > > build.
> > >
> > > The next project is to redo one of the new M3s, throw
> > away
> > > all of the
> > > factory crap and replace with real hardware. 700bhp
> > turbo
> > > 5.6 V10, hidden
> > > rollcage, sequential Riccardo box, Comp dry
> > sump-Accusump
> > > system, carbon sun
> > > visors, fire extinguisher on the A pillar, etc.
> > >
> > > Besides...emissions? Where's that male body spray?
> > >
> > > LS
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > From: Jim Conforti
> > > To: LS
> > > Cc: The FerrariList
> > > Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 3:43:05 PM
> > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
> > with
> > > Electronics...was Re:
> > > Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on
> > > Tuesday)
> > >
> > > At 09:00 AM 12/3/2008 -0800, LS wrote:
> > >
> > > >A friend of mine is building an '89 E30 M3
> > with a
> > > 2008 BMW M5 v10
> > > >drivetrain and suspension. Instead of cracking the
> > > factory ECU
> > > >programming, he trashed it and is having Dinan
> > assist
> > > him with a
> > > >standalone Pectel unit to takeover everything. It
> > was
> > > claimed that the
> > > >modern V10 BMW could not run without proprietary
> > BMW
> > > ECU control. It is a
> > > >ridiculous amount of work, but he is pioneering it
> > for
> > > the BMW world. It
> > > >is only the beginning.
> > >
> > > Of course said vehicle can NEVER be operated on any
> > > public highway in
> > > the USA.
> > >
> > > (Seriously)
> > >
> > > The chances of getting caught are low, but if he
> > does -
> > > I hope he's got
> > > incredibly
> > > deep pockets because it's rather expensive
> > fighting
> > > the US EPA in court.
> > >
> > > This, of course, is why you DON'T
> > "trash"
> > > the factory ECU.
> > > ROFLMAO.
> > >
> > > JC
> > >
> > >
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- Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday), (continued)
- Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday) E M, December 4 2008
- Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday) cmlf1, December 4 2008
- Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday) Dan Warlick, December 4 2008
- Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday) E M, December 4 2008
- Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday) cmlf1, December 4 2008
- Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday) E M, December 4 2008
- Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday) Martin Stark, December 4 2008
- Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday) Michael James, December 4 2008
- Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday) LS, December 4 2008
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