Ferrari Mailing List: Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)

[E M (pokiebaron]

My old 300E keeps motoring along too.  When something does break, often
parts cost little more than those for a Chev.

Ed
911SC

2008/12/4 cmlf1 <cmlf1 [at] optonline.net>

>  My 450 SEL will not die either, and so simple to do just about anything!
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* E M <pokiebaron [at] gmail.com>
> *To:* cmlf1 [at] optonline.net
> *Cc:* ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, December 04, 2008 6:47 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
> Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on
> Tuesday)
>
> You must drive an old Mercedes W140?  hee hee.
>
> Ed
> 911SC
>
> 2008/12/4 <cmlf1 [at] optonline.net>
>
>> The wire harnesses weigh in the hundreds of lbs. and have thousands of
>> connections and numerous control modules etc.
>
>
>> Carl
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Dan Warlick
>> Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008 1:39 pm
>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
>> Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on
>> Tuesday)
>> To: cmlf1 [at] optonline.net
>> Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
>>
>> > F40,F50,Enzo.......Other than the ultra collectibles like these
>> > I am at a
>> > loss LS.
>> > Dan
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "LS"
>> > To: "Daniel"
>> > Cc: "The FerrariList"
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 1:30 PM
>> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
>> > Electronics...wasRe: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man
>> > rambling on
>> > Tuesday)
>> >
>> >
>> > Most modern cars are plastic or sheet metal anyways.
>> >
>> > Look at any volume produced car like the M3, 911, Corvette,
>> > etc.They share
>> > so many parts with other models within their manufacturer. If
>> > your 911GT3
>> > climate control unit goes bad, go on ebay and buy one off of a
>> > parted out
>> > Boxter for $50.
>> >
>> > I know nothing about Porsches, so I don't know if this example
>> > is true, but
>> > I'm making a point about shared platforms.
>> >
>> > A friend's Hartge E90 BMW cost $225k new and has stamped sheet
>> > metal lower
>> > control arms in the rear!!! Those might've cost $2.56 to produce
>> > by a 7 yr
>> > old in China.
>> >
>> > There are companies out there that will repair circuit boards
>> > for modern
>> > Euro car electronics. I had an Audi A4 B5 that had many
>> > terrifying
>> > electronic glitches. There were companies that would repair bad
>> > pixels on
>> > electronic displays, repair faulty ABS units and other nutty,
>> > labor
>> > intensive repairs for literally nothing.
>> >
>> > The point I'm making is that the complexity of modern cars is
>> > spawning
>> > support industries that we didn't have in the 1980s and 1990s.
>> >
>> > Add that to the sheer volume of cars being produced, even for
>> > Ferrari, and
>> > the chances of keeping your modern Chinese plastic F430 goes up
>> > quite a bit.
>> > (haha)
>> >
>> > The real question is...what car produced today is going to be
>> > worth
>> > restoring 20 yrs from now???
>> >
>> > LS
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message ----
>> > From: Rick Lindsay
>> > To: LS
>> > Cc: The FerrariList
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:51:51 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
>> > Electronics...was
>> > Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)
>> >
>> > Oh, that's exactly what I'm doing. This car isn't worth crap as
>> > a collector
>> > car so any money spent is in the same category as installing
>> > ceiling fans in
>> > a house. They may be nice but don't add a cent to the value. I'm
>> > going to
>> > create a straight-fold foam-core mockup, tweaking the dimensions
>> > for correct
>> > alignment, then transfer that design to sheet metal, to be
>> > formed and welded
>> > in place. This is alsso known as, "a good excuse to buy a welder."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > rick
>> >
>> > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, LS wrote:
>> >
>> > > From: LS
>> > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
>> > Electronics...was
>> > > Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)
>> > > To: "Rick Lindsay"
>> > > Cc: "The FerrariList"
>> > > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 10:46 AM
>> > > It may be cheaper to make the part yourself, but it's
>> > > certainly available in some way correct?
>> > >
>> > > LS
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ----- Original Message ----
>> > > From: Rick Lindsay
>> > > To: LS
>> > > Cc: The FerrariList
>> > > Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:58:40 AM
>> > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
>> > > Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old
>> > > man rambling on Tuesday)
>> > >
>> > > Exactly! I have a 1961 Mercedes 180b. It has a rusty
>> > > radius arm mount. The 4" x 12" piece of formed
>> > > sheet metal is $800 from the M-B Classic Center - and that
>> > > doesn't include the $79 mount point or the $39 rubber
>> > > donut - and does not (obviously) include
>> > > installation/welding.
>> > >
>> > > rick
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > --- On Thu, 12/4/08, LS wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > From: LS
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
>> > > with Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.
>> > > Old man rambling on Tuesday)
>> > > > To: "rolindsay"
>> > > > Cc: "The FerrariList"
>> > >
>> > > > Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:48 AM
>> > > > The $300k was to build an entire car from scratch with
>> > > > custom bodywork, wheels, chassis, etc.
>> > > >
>> > > > The standalone engine management is much, much,
>> > > > much cheaper and will be even less so in 20 yrs.
>> > > >
>> > > > Benz has started manufacturing all of their vintage
>> > > parts
>> > > > with super markups for old restorations to run the
>> > > > private parts suppliers out of business.
>> > > >
>> > > > Why wouldn't Ferrari do the same thing?
>> > > >
>> > > > LS
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ________________________________
>> > > > From: Michael James
>> > >
>> > > > To: LS
>> > > > Cc: The FerrariList
>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:52:40 PM
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
>> > > with
>> > > > Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.
>> > > Old
>> > > > man rambling on Tuesday)
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Agreed, but when it comes time to fix that F1 tranny
>> > > in 20
>> > > > years, I don't think there will be many owners
>> > > who
>> > > > will pony-up anything close to $300K to fix or upgrade
>> > > a 360
>> > > > F1 to keep it going. In another ten years, the 360
>> > > will be
>> > > > lucky to maintain 20% of its original book-value. If
>> > > the
>> > > > value to reverse-engineer something surpasses the
>> > > total
>> > > > value of the car....the owner is screwed (or needs to
>> > > be
>> > > > REALLY in-love with the machine) . Much of the
>> > > > Tranny's electronics are made by Magnetti Marelli
>> > > -
>> > > > they're not well-known for keeping 'NOS'
>> > > parts
>> > > > on the shelf forever.
>> > > >
>> > > > Then again, Ferrari and some of their OEM parts
>> > > suppliers
>> > > > are probably scratching their heads over how many of
>> > > their
>> > > > 'old cars' they thought would have disappeared
>> > > long
>> > > > ago are being preserved and restored in quantities
>> > > close to
>> > > > original production numbers. I know people who are
>> > > > fabricating small plastic parts in their own
>> > > garage for
>> > > > vintage Ferraris...stuff that's been NLA for
>> > > > years....the Marque is enjoying a very loyal and
>> > > dedicated
>> > > > fan base that considers NOTHING Ferrari-related to be
>> > > > disposable. Will this continue?
>> > > >
>> > > > Hey, I hope I'm wrong....the future will be
>> > > > interesting!
>> > > >
>> > > > M
>> > > >
>> > > > --- On Wed, 12/3/08, LS
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > From: LS
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
>> > > with
>> > > > Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.
>> > > Old
>> > > > man rambling on Tuesday)
>> > > > To: "Michael"
>> > >
>> > > > Cc: "The FerrariList"
>> > > >
>> > > > Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 6:46 PM
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > Jim, good to hear from you. Where have you been?
>> > > >
>> > > > I believe Michael James' concern was that as the
>> > > modern
>> > > > cars like the 360
>> > > > get older, the complex electronics would make
>> > > restoration
>> > > > or maint impossible.
>> > > >
>> > > > When most of these cars need such a solution, they
>> > > will
>> > > > probably be too old
>> > > > (over 20 yrs in some states) to need to be emissions
>> > > > compliant.
>> > > >
>> > > > The F355 will be eligible for antique tags in 6 yrs
>> > > in my
>> > > > state!
>> > > >
>> > > > Not only will the E30 M3 be driven on the street
>> > > legally,
>> > > > it will retain cats
>> > > > and will pass 1989 tailpipe standards! Although, in
>> > > his
>> > > > area, he doesn't
>> > > > have to comply because the car will be exempt.
>> > > >
>> > > > They are doing it simply as a challenge.
>> > > >
>> > > > Regarding the motor...they were on the dyno last month
>> > > with
>> > > > Dinan's new V10
>> > > > stroker, 5.6 liters I believe. They will have 600bhp
>> > > in a
>> > > > 2800lb E30 M3!
>> > > >
>> > > > He spent something like $30k for a new V10 motor just
>> > > to
>> > > > tune and setup the
>> > > > Pectel mgmt. After 1 day of dyno testing by Pectel, it
>> > > was
>> > > > trash and they threw
>> > > > the engine away. Onto engine #2...
>> > > >
>> > > > He has $300k into this whole project is not close to
>> > > being
>> > > > done. There is so
>> > > > much custom bodywork, fabrication, and over the top
>> > > detail
>> > > > work in the whole
>> > > > build.
>> > > >
>> > > > The next project is to redo one of the new M3s, throw
>> > > away
>> > > > all of the
>> > > > factory crap and replace with real hardware. 700bhp
>> > > turbo
>> > > > 5.6 V10, hidden
>> > > > rollcage, sequential Riccardo box, Comp dry
>> > > sump-Accusump
>> > > > system, carbon sun
>> > > > visors, fire extinguisher on the A pillar, etc.
>> > > >
>> > > > Besides...emissions? Where's that male body spray?
>> > > >
>> > > > LS
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > ----- Original Message ----
>> > > > From: Jim Conforti
>> > > > To: LS
>> > > > Cc: The FerrariList
>> > > > Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 3:43:05 PM
>> > > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car
>> > > with
>> > > > Electronics...was Re:
>> > > > Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on
>> > > > Tuesday)
>> > > >
>> > > > At 09:00 AM 12/3/2008 -0800, LS wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > >A friend of mine is building an '89 E30 M3
>> > > with a
>> > > > 2008 BMW M5 v10
>> > > > >drivetrain and suspension. Instead of cracking the
>> > > > factory ECU
>> > > > >programming, he trashed it and is having Dinan
>> > > assist
>> > > > him with a
>> > > > >standalone Pectel unit to takeover everything. It
>> > > was
>> > > > claimed that the
>> > > > >modern V10 BMW could not run without proprietary
>> > > BMW
>> > > > ECU control. It is a
>> > > > >ridiculous amount of work, but he is pioneering it
>> > > for
>> > > > the BMW world. It
>> > > > >is only the beginning.
>> > > >
>> > > > Of course said vehicle can NEVER be operated on any
>> > > > public highway in
>> > > > the USA.
>> > > >
>> > > > (Seriously)
>> > > >
>> > > > The chances of getting caught are low, but if he
>> > > does -
>> > > > I hope he's got
>> > > > incredibly
>> > > > deep pockets because it's rather expensive
>> > > fighting
>> > > > the US EPA in court.
>> > > >
>> > > > This, of course, is why you DON'T
>> > > "trash"
>> > > > the factory ECU.
>> > > > ROFLMAO.
>> > > >
>> > > > JC
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,
>> > > please
>> > > > visit:
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/lashdeep%40yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > > > Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
>> > > > and F1 Headlines
>> > > > http://www.F1Headlines.com/
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,
>> > > please
>> > > > visit:
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/cavallino_rapante%40yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > > > Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
>> > > > and F1 Headlines
>> > > > http://www.F1Headlines.com/
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > _________________________________________________________________
>> > > > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options,
>> > > please
>> > > > visit:
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/rolindsay%40yahoo.com>
>> >
>> > > > Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
>> > > > and F1 Headlines
>> > > > http://www.F1Headlines.com/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>> > http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/edwf430%40att.net
>> >
>> > Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
>> > and F1 Headlines
>> > http://www.F1Headlines.com/
>> >
>> > _________________________________________________________________
>> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>> >
>> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/cmlf1%40optonline.net
>>  >
>> > Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
>> > and F1 Headlines
>> > http://www.F1Headlines.com/
>> >
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
>>
>> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/pokiebaron%40gmail.com
>>
>> Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
>> and F1 Headlines
>> http://www.F1Headlines.com/
>>
>
>