Ferrari Mailing List: Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)

(continued)

"The real question is...what car produced today is going to be worth 

restoring 20 yrs from now???"  To that point as quoted from below

I must add this example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHSgeoLgu5U

LS wrote:

Most modern cars are plastic or sheet metal anyways. 

Look at any volume produced car like the M3, 911, Corvette, etc.They share so many parts with other models within their manufacturer. If your 911GT3 climate control unit goes bad, go on ebay and buy one off of a parted out Boxter for $50. 

I know nothing about Porsches, so I don't know if this example is true, but I'm 
making a point about shared platforms.

A friend's Hartge E90 BMW cost $225k new and has stamped sheet metal lower 
control arms in the rear!!! Those might've cost $2.56 to produce by a 7 yr old 
in China.

There are companies out there that will repair circuit boards for modern Euro 
car electronics. I had an Audi A4 B5 that had many terrifying electronic 
glitches. There were companies that would repair bad pixels on electronic 
displays, repair faulty ABS units and other nutty, labor intensive repairs for 
literally nothing.

The point I'm making is that the complexity of modern cars is spawning support 
industries that we didn't have in the 1980s and 1990s.

Add that to the sheer volume of cars being produced, even for Ferrari, and the 
chances of keeping your modern Chinese plastic F430 goes up quite a bit. (haha)

The real question is...what car produced today is going to be worth restoring 
20 yrs from now???

LS

----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Lindsay <rolindsay [at] yahoo.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 11:51:51 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...was Re: 
Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)

Oh, that's exactly what I'm doing.  This car isn't worth crap as a collector car so any 
money spent is in the same category as installing ceiling fans in a house.  They may be 
nice but don't add a cent to the value.  I'm going to create a straight-fold foam-core 
mockup, tweaking the dimensions for correct alignment, then transfer that design to sheet 
metal, to be formed and welded in place.  This is alsso known as, "a good excuse to 
buy a welder."

rick

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...was Re: 
Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)
To: "Rick Lindsay" <rolindsay [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 10:46 AM
It may be cheaper to make the part yourself, but it's
certainly available in some way correct?

LS

----- Original Message ----
From: Rick Lindsay <rolindsay [at] yahoo.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2008 10:58:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car with
Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old
man rambling on Tuesday)

Exactly!  I have a 1961 Mercedes 180b.  It has a rusty
radius arm mount.  The 4" x 12" piece of formed
sheet metal is $800 from the M-B Classic Center - and that
doesn't include the $79 mount point or the $39 rubber
donut - and does not (obviously) include
installation/welding.

rick

--- On Thu, 12/4/08, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:

From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car

with Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.
Old man rambling on Tuesday)

To: "rolindsay" <rolindsay [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList"

<ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>

Date: Thursday, December 4, 2008, 9:48 AM
The $300k was to build an entire car from scratch with
custom bodywork, wheels, chassis, etc.

The standalone engine management is much, much,
much cheaper and will be even less so in 20 yrs.

Benz has started manufacturing all of their vintage

parts

with super markups for old restorations to run the

private parts suppliers out of business. 

Why wouldn't Ferrari do the same thing?

LS

________________________________
From: Michael James

<cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>

To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 8:52:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car

with

Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.

Old

man rambling on Tuesday)

Agreed, but when it comes time to fix that F1 tranny

in 20

years, I don't think there will be many owners

who

will pony-up anything close to $300K to fix or upgrade

a 360

F1 to keep it going.  In another ten years, the 360

will be

lucky to maintain 20% of its original book-value.  If

the

value to reverse-engineer something surpasses the

total

value of the car....the owner is screwed (or needs to

be

REALLY in-love with the machine) .  Much of the
Tranny's electronics are made by Magnetti Marelli

-

they're not well-known for keeping 'NOS'

parts

on the shelf forever.  

Then again, Ferrari and some of their OEM parts

suppliers

are probably scratching their heads over how many of

their

'old cars' they thought would have disappeared

long

ago are being preserved and restored in quantities

close to

original production numbers.  I know people who are
fabricating small plastic parts in their own

garage for

vintage Ferraris...stuff that's been NLA for
years....the Marque is enjoying a very loyal and

dedicated

fan base that considers NOTHING Ferrari-related to be
disposable.  Will this continue?

Hey, I hope I'm wrong....the future will be
interesting!

M

--- On Wed, 12/3/08, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>

wrote:

From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car

with

Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A.

Old

man rambling on Tuesday)
To: "Michael"

<Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>

Cc: "The FerrariList"
<ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 3, 2008, 6:46 PM

Jim, good to hear from you. Where have you been?

I believe Michael James' concern was that as the

modern

cars like the 360
get older, the complex electronics would make

restoration

or maint impossible.

When most of these cars need such a solution, they

will

probably be too old
(over 20 yrs in some states) to need to be emissions
compliant.

The F355 will be eligible for antique tags in 6 yrs

in my

state! 

Not only will the E30 M3 be driven on the street

legally,

it will retain cats
and will pass 1989 tailpipe standards! Although, in

his

area, he doesn't
have to comply because the car will be exempt.

They are doing it simply as a challenge.

Regarding the motor...they were on the dyno last month

with

Dinan's new V10
stroker, 5.6 liters I believe. They will have 600bhp

in a

2800lb E30 M3! 

He spent something like $30k for a new V10 motor just

to

tune and setup the
Pectel mgmt. After 1 day of dyno testing by Pectel, it

was

trash and they threw
the engine away. Onto engine #2...

He has $300k into this whole project is not close to

being

done. There is so
much custom bodywork, fabrication, and over the top

detail

work in the whole
build.

The next project is to redo one of the new M3s, throw

away

all of the
factory crap and replace with real hardware. 700bhp

turbo

5.6 V10, hidden
rollcage, sequential Riccardo box, Comp dry

sump-Accusump

system, carbon sun
visors, fire extinguisher on the A pillar, etc.

Besides...emissions? Where's that male body spray?

LS

----- Original Message ----
From: Jim Conforti <lndshrk [at] xmission.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 3:43:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] The Lifespan of a Modern Car

with

Electronics...was Re:
Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on
Tuesday)

At 09:00 AM 12/3/2008 -0800, LS wrote:

A friend of mine is building an '89 E30 M3

with a

2008 BMW M5 v10 

drivetrain and suspension. Instead of cracking the

factory ECU 

programming, he trashed it and is having Dinan

assist

him with a 

standalone Pectel unit to takeover everything. It

was

claimed that the 

modern V10 BMW could not run without proprietary

BMW

ECU control. It is a 

ridiculous amount of work, but he is pioneering it

for

the BMW world. It 

is only the beginning.

 Of course said vehicle can NEVER be operated on any

public highway in 

the USA.

 (Seriously)

 The chances of getting caught are low, but if he

does -

I hope he's got 

incredibly

 deep pockets because it's rather expensive

fighting

the US EPA in court.

 This, of course, is why you DON'T

"trash"

the factory ECU. 

ROFLMAO.

 JC

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Re: The Lifespan of a Modern Car with Electronics...was Re: Best car I've driven (A.K.A. Old man rambling on Tuesday)	<– Date –> <– Thread –>
From: Martin Stark (MStarkCopper.net)
Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 17:02:02 -0800 (PST)