Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Motor City Christmas Card

[Lee S. Lingo (LeesCars]

Agreed.  The capital costs, overhead, value of their loans and credit lines,
and legacy costs have played an enormous part in their losses.  

They all need to be reduced significantly. When comparing Toyota to GM, it
should also be pointed out that commercial production of Toyota automobiles
began in 1947, some 50 years after some of the brands that make up GM now.
There are unions in Japan, but their relationship with their employers is
dramatically different in that they work together to benefit the whole.
Additionally, the Japanese government has a very hands on approach to its
manufacturers where they work in collaboration.

While the negative aspects of the UAW are readily apparent to all, had the
UAW not been able to secure the healthcare and retirement gains it has, a
significant number employees would now be seeking aid via Medicare/Medicaid,
work assistance, unemployment, etc. which the American taxpayer would have
ultimately funded.  It wasn't the better approach, in my opinion, but it has
had some merits.

Net, net, change is needed.  Big change.

Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: Rich [mailto:Rich355 [at] comcast.net] 
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:20 PM
To: Lee Lingo
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card

A senator was citing  statistics at the hearings the other day , and this 
one really was shocking.
I believe he cited that both Toyota and GM each sold 9 million vehicles 
worldwide in 2007 . The big difference was Toyota made a profit of somewhere

in the $ 17  Billion range, while GM lost around $ 36 Billion.
Now trying to convinve anyone that GM  is losing money because the are not 
selling enough cars is laughable at best .
Obviously there is a bigger culprit  in GM's losses than their car sales 
numbers.

Rich


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Thursby" <david [at] thethursbys.net>
To: "Rich" <rich355 [at] comcast.net>
Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 1:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card


> Seconded.
>
> Steve Jenkins wrote:
>> As part-maker of the loan, I'm curious as to what is the collateral on 
>> the
>> loan?
>>
>> I'm a fan of chapter 11 for the "big" three. It's doesn't mean they have 
>> to
>> go out of business - it means they have to re-organize, they have greater
>> ability to strong-arm the unions (don't get me started on unions - they 
>> were
>> necessary "back in the day" but have far outlived their necessity) and 
>> they
>> can restructure some of their debt. Airlines who've done it (United, 
>> Delta,
>> NWA) are all still alive and kicking. Of course, it didn't work for Aloha
>> Airlines - but staying in business is not the right of any organization,
>> it's a privilege afforded it by its customers.
>>
>> SJ
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lee S. Lingo [mailto:LeesCars [at] comcast.net]
>> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:25 AM
>> To: Steve Jenkins
>> Cc: 'The FerrariList'
>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card
>>
>> Yeah, this has been floating around for a month or so.  It's unfortunate
>> that it plays to the stereotype that the "Southern Senators" are 
>> claiming.
>> Sen.'s Bob Corker (TN), Mitch McConnell (KY), Jim Bunning (KY) and 
>> Richard
>> Shelby (AL) are some of the more outspoken leaders of the anti-American
>> sentiment where it pertains to the automotive industry.
>>
>> I know that it's a lot of political posturing, but I find it unbelievable
>> that they are pushing out the US Auto makers and feel that they are in no
>> need of assistance just because they have some foreign auto 
>> manufacturer's
>> in their state.  Those manufacturers, Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, Nissan and
>> Mercedes-Benz chose those locations because of intense lobbying by those
>> states and the subsidies in taxes and such.  Those five manufacturers all
>> use parts vendors that also provide parts to the US auto makers.  If one 
>> or
>> more of the US auto makers go down, their inability to pay their vendors
>> will cause significant hardship, and most likely, closing of the vendors 
>> at
>> least temporarily should sufficient credit be available which will in 
>> turn
>> affect the foreign makers.  They're all tied together.
>>
>> And I'm sick to death of the term bailout being bandied back and forth.
>> It's a bridge loan...
>>
>> Sorry Charles, but this issue REALLY gets my goat.
>>
>> Lee
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Charles Perry [mailto:charles [at] carolina-sound.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 11:20 AM
>> To: Lee Lingo
>> Cc: The FerrariList
>> Subject: [Ferrari] Motor City Christmas Card
>>
>>
>> Amusing, in a sad way...
>>
>> -- charles
>>
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