Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Require Driving School? Yes or No?

[E M (pokiebaron]

Hi Larry,

I was taught, half out with the clutch going through neutral, but as I said,
I could be wrong on that.  My understand was, not from the driving benefits
of heal and toeing, but from a mechanical point, letting the clutch half out
and blipping was enough to spin the next gearset up to speed and trick the
transmission, by syncing everything up.

As for sideways at 50mph, it enough to put create either a smile, or a
pucker, all depending on whether I'm playing the with car, or the car is
playing with me. ;-)  Dry is good, but I'll often go out for drives in the
rain, just to lower the limits and allow me to "explore" things a bit,
without all the unwanted attention that the speed would bring if conditions
were dry.  That said, things happen fast as you know, and I pick my corners
very carefully, and always know if there's a runoff area, with NO poles!
lol  Parking lots are great too, but again, gotta watch those poles that can
jump out at you. hee hee.

I would imagine where I am, probably gives you as much opportunity to
practice your footwork as where you are.  Now for a really fun drive, where
you never had to go more than 50 meters before the next gear change, or
curve, try the roads leading up to the Italian Alps in the North!
Wooohooo.  Just ask Clyde, I think he was stationed there at one time.  They
don't have a lot of road signs, but the number of small white crosses by the
roadside should give you an indication as to how much caution and care
should be give to various corners!!  No better road to learn how a car
handles, and yes, the car feels totally different on the way up, than it
doesn on the way down.

You mentioned a video of Senna earlier.  I was trying to find an old clip of
Hans Stuck, driving an Audi.  Was really great stuff, heel and toe, both
right and left foot braking, trailing braking while keeping the throttle
open to keep the turbos on the boil.  Really was a beautiful dance between
man and machine. :-)

Ed
911SC

2009/2/14 LarryT <l02turner [at] comcast.net>

> Hi Ed -
>   As far as double clutching, I was taught to -- 1.clutch in,
> 2. gear lever to neutral,
> 3  clutch out,
> 4. blip throttle,
> 5. gear lever in,
> 6. gear lever to next gear.
> 7. clutch out
>
>   You wrote that Mansell said He [Mansell]  said, "Not at all, we drive
> 10/10ths without
> ever giving it a thought."
>
>   I always thought it was a matter of what people get used to.  Like
> driving at 80 on the interstate for hours on end.  Exit and get onto a road
> with a 55 speed limit an you'll feel like you could step out and go faster.
> I'm sure ya'll have experienced that?
>
>   Where the experienced driver excels is not so much in driving fast but in
> having the reflexs to catch a car coming out of a curve and getting on the
> gas a little early and as the rear wheels spin and the tail gets loose, the
> experienced driver will reflexively countersteer and correct the slide.
> Doing this at 50 is one thing, probaby most of us could do that, but, doing
> it at 150 is a whole 'nuther ball game!   Don't know about ya'll, but when I
> get frisky and start to explore the higher speeds possible from my 911, I
> generally do it on a long, straight, dry highway.
>
>   Maybe if I had High Speed Driving School in my background things would be
> different?  Or perhaps doing it over and over until I could correct
> consistantly at any speed would be just the thing - but then practice would
> be needed to maintain skills.  - naturally.
>
> Sincerely,
> Larry T  (74 911, 91 300D 2.5T)
> www.youroil.net Oil Analysis Kits &
> Porsche Posters/Weber parts
> Test Results - http://members.rennlist.com/oil/
>
> http://www.scamfreetop10.com/1233.html
>
>
> .
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "E M" <pokiebaron [at] gmail.com>
> To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
> Cc: "Ferrarilist" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 1:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Require Driving School? Yes or No?
>
>
>  When I downshift, I usually on let the clutch out half way.  Not sure if
>> I've been doing it right all these years or not?  lol  I think I read the
>> double clutching sequence in Bondurant's book on high performance driving,
>> waaaay back.  I've never adjusted the pedals in my old car, I've just
>> developed ankles that can bend in rather funny ways over the years. :-)
>>
>> I remember Mansell once saying when asked if it takes a lot of
>> concentration
>> to drive a F1 car flat out.  He said, "Not at all, we drive 10/10ths
>> without
>> ever giving it a thought.  Only thing we think about while doing so, is
>> the
>> race, and what we're chatting about over the radio to our crew chief
>> about".  I think the same applies to the road.  If things go wrong, and
>> you
>> have to stop and start assessing your options, chances are, you'lle still
>> be
>> thinking about things as you drive into what you're trying to avoid. hee
>> hee.  Best to know what you and your car can do under controlled
>> conditions,
>> and do it often to remind yourself. ;-)
>>
>> Ed
>> 911SC, who's been chased out of more than one wet parking lot by
>> police/security people for having just a little too much fun. ;-)
>>
>> 2009/2/13 Doug and Terri Anderson <dnt [at] dock.net>
>>
>>  On heel and towing - First NO car today actually has the set up of the
>>> early
>>> F1 cars where by one of the pedals is below each other.  Older cars - 50
>>> years ago?  Yes.  Not today - Most of what we do is double clutching, by
>>> rolling our foot onto the gas, especially on a down shift.  Clutch in, 5
>>> to
>>> N, clutch out. Roll throttle or blip, Clutch in, N to 4.  All the while
>>> braking - sometimes.
>>>
>>> That said, at Riverside - preparing for turn 6, downshift 5th to 4th
>>> through
>>> turn 5 while braking, (see above) Back on the gas hard up the hill
>>> through
>>> first apex, do 4th to 3rd downshift, let out clutch,lift off gas - back
>>> end
>>> reverse torques and tail comes around - hard on gas through second apex
>>> down
>>> the short chute to turn 7.
>>>
>>> One time, with an instructor in the car,  I had the gear shift knob come
>>> off
>>> doing the 4 to 3 shift.  I handed the knob to the instructor and
>>> continued
>>> on my merry way.  heh heh
>>>
>>> DOUG
>>> As for driving school?  You bet.  Ran our daughter through normal Porsche
>>> auto cross season.  Can not tell you how many times my racing experience
>>> as
>>> saved my bacon on the highways and byways - mostly spinal cord reaction -
>>> none of this see think do crapola.
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Rick Lindsay" <rolindsay [at] yahoo.com>
>>> To: "DOUG" <dnt [at] dock.net>
>>> Cc: "Ferrarilist" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 8:30 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Require Driving School? Yes or No?
>>>
>>>
>>> > Oh Mike, cut it out and tell us what you really think.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --- On Fri, 2/13/09, Mike Fleischer <themightytoe [at] gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> From: Mike Fleischer <themightytoe [at] gmail.com>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Require Driving School? Yes or No?
>>> >> To: "rolindsay" <rolindsay [at] yahoo.com>
>>> >> Cc: "Ferrarilist" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
>>> >> Date: Friday, February 13, 2009, 9:31 AM
>>> >> OK
>>> >>
>>> >> I have been reading this thread for a bit and as an HPDE
>>> >> instructor, I
>>> >> will put it out there to my Ferrari list pals who I think
>>> >> are a great
>>> >> and entertaining group...  Would I want to share track time
>>> >> with you
>>> >> guys on a road course?   Hell no, I value my life too much.
>>> >>
>>> >> Bunch of back seat drivers if I ever saw them...  I would
>>> >> be genuinely
>>> >> surprised to see more than 10% of this list be able to
>>> >> execute a heel
>>> >> and toe down shift consistently or to run a single lap in
>>> >> any car, let
>>> >> alone their prized Ferrari at 10/10ths.  Seriously your a
>>> >> bunch of
>>> >> waxers when it comes to real driving, the PCA and BMW CCA
>>> >> guys would eat
>>> >> your lunches no question.   No question the rides look and
>>> >> sound better,
>>> >> but don't fool yourselves into thinking the 370Z auto
>>> >> rev matching was
>>> >> not built specifically for you just like those F1 paddles
>>> >> in 80% of new
>>> >> Ferrari's.
>>> >>
>>> >> As for the ZR1, yeah its a monster of a car, and not for
>>> >> the
>>> >> inexperienced, but in the hands of a bad driver, a Jetta is
>>> >> dangerous.
>>> >> The problem is not the horsepower though, that's like
>>> >> saying the problem
>>> >> with guns is all the bullets... (hope this stays on topic
>>> >> after
>>> >> that)...  I am a firm believer that in the US of A, driver
>>> >> training is
>>> >> abysmal, no one should learn anything more than the rules
>>> >> for dodge ball
>>> >> and the proper form of a sit up from their gym teacher...
>>> >> We Americans
>>> >> start out with terrible training and then spend the rest of
>>> >> our lives
>>> >> adding bad habits to that poor training.  I know many
>>> >> adults who could
>>> >> not manage to parallel park to save their lives.  Take the
>>> >> bad training
>>> >> and habits and throw in a total lack of regard for your
>>> >> fellow man and
>>> >> you have a bit of a dangerous situation.   Before you point
>>> >> fingers at
>>> >> all those kids who are getting bad training... What did you
>>> >> do to
>>> >> improve the same bad training you received?  I learned to
>>> >> drive in the
>>> >> UK and even that was not sufficient training in my
>>> >> opinion...  I pro
>>> >> actively went out and attended many driving schools and car
>>> >> control
>>> >> clinics right after I got out of college.
>>> >>
>>> >> I think that driver training is changing, here in IL (state
>>> >> of
>>> >> corruption that it is) driver training is probably the most
>>> >> strict in
>>> >> the country, they just bumped new driver seat time
>>> >> requirements from 50
>>> >> to 100 hours of logged driving with a licensed driver
>>> >> (parent) or
>>> >> instructor before a license is granted.  Kids here need to
>>> >> keep a log
>>> >> book (like a pilot in training).  I think that is a step in
>>> >> the right
>>> >> direction.  Next step is mandatory in car testing for the
>>> >> first few
>>> >> years of driving, and retesting at regular intervals (like
>>> >> every 5
>>> >> years).  (Hey that would create jobs too...)  No
>>> >> demonstration of safe
>>> >> skills, no license.  Plain and simple.
>>> >>
>>> >> No matter how much training you give, there will still be
>>> >> someone who's
>>> >> skills are exceeded by their egos and our insurance rates
>>> >> will go up...
>>> >> I don't blame them anymore than I blame people in Texas
>>> >> for letting
>>> >> black mold grow in their duct works for raising my
>>> >> insurance rates...
>>> >> Rick go check your ducts man!
>>> >>
>>> >> :)
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Larry B wrote:
>>> >> > You mean if I hand my wife the keys to my Ferrari she
>>> >> might not come back alive? Hmmm.  For as long as I've
>>> >> owned it she hasn't planted her rear in the driver's
>>> >> seat, but this gives me reason to rethink that position.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Okay, just kidding.  Probably.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > LarryDate: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:14:12 -0800From:
>>> >> cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com
>>> >> > . . . . Do we really toss the wife the keys to our
>>> >> Ferraris and hope they come back alive?
>>> >> >
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