More power little motors
From: philville dejazzd.com (philvilledejazzd.com)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 08:35:22 -0700 (PDT)
   I recall a Lancia 1.2 L 4 cyl ( and if you do not know the engine it
   is sweet) DOHC's in a very narrow V so they accomplis this with 2
   cams.

   At any rate my recollection was 450 HP ....and this was probably 30
   years ago.......some of the under 1L engines (many of which were Fiat
   based were real jewels OSCA had a really beautiful 850cc engine but I
   do not recall the HP.
   Phil ( who needs huge and heavy )
   ----- Original Message -----
   From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
   Date: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:28 am
   Subject: Re: [Ferrari] BUGATTI WOW ! - (NFC)
   To: Phil Tegtmeier <philville [at] dejazzd.com>
   Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
   >
   > I'd like to see car manufacturers engineer components that
   > are simpler and lighter. 1000bhp in  Veyron is impressive
   > quantitatively. But, when you look at how it was accomplished,
   > it's not so great. 4 turbochargers on an already massive and
   > heavy engine? Doesn't it get 8mpg? There's not much to be proud
   > of there.
   >
   > 400bhp engine with 20mph and variable valve timing? Why not
   > 400bhp with 25mpg *without* variable valve timing and with the
   > same powerband?
   >
   > Complexitiy and added engineering doesn't always make something
   > better does it?
   >
   > Mike, I'm with you on the hands free phone calls! :)
   >
   >
   >
   > ----- Original Message ----
   > From: Mike Fleischer <themightytoe [at] gmail.com>
   > To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
   > Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
   > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:00:19 AM
   > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] BUGATTI WOW ! - (NFC)
   >
   > I am not certain I agree with either point...  These cars are
   > fodder for
   > adolescent fantasy no question but engineering superiority?
   >
   > Creating limited production run, hand assembled vehicles is not
   > really
   > much different than building a race car, both have a list of
   > rules to
   > follow (wether its FIA regulations for a spoiler placement or
   > door
   > intrusion during a side impact).  Production numbers differ a
   > bit (in
   > some cases not really that much)...
   >
   > Clearly the motors and drive trains and chassis and
   > wheels/tires/suspension can show some significant innovation but
   > none of
   > these "supercars" represent more than beautiful styling,
   > expensive
   > materials, hot rodded motors and a large price tag.  By that
   > measure,
   > the Mac F1, the F40, even the Enzo, are really impressive cars,
   > but
   > engineering accomplishments?  Not really as much as they are an
   > exercise
   > in mechanical aptitude and visual design.
   >
   > Let's face facts, automotive innovation is very few and far
   > between...
   > Its mostly an exercise in accounting (even at Ferrari) and
   > marketing.
   > Real engineering is happening, but most of that is related to
   > improving
   > efficiencies, or manufacturing costs or any other aspect that
   > makes the
   > cars more profitable and sell-able.
   >
   > Here are some automotive stuff that are really innovative (that
   > you can
   > actually see on your car):
   >
   > Toyota's Prius (give them props where they are due)
   > Volkswagen's TDI cars
   > Run flat tires
   > In car navigation
   > Hands free phone calls
   > Regenerative brake systems
   > Direct Injection
   > Variable valve control
   > Vehicle auto-cruise control
   > Vehicle auto-parking...
   >
   > Most of the other stuff has been rolled into the manufacturing
   > like
   > cracked piston rods, or lower tolerances on bearings because of
   > engine
   > oil improvements, single piece engine blocks, removal of piston
   > sleeve
   > liners, or more consistent body panels due to better stamping
   > machinery...
   > While some of the supercars may use these, none of them were
   > early
   > adopters...
   >
   > That said, The Bugatti Veyron is just plain ugly.  Sorry, I do
   > not care
   > for it at all, style wise its just hideous and has no appeal
   > whatsoever
   > to me.  Impressive performance on it, but yuck, the automotive
   > equivalent of plaid golfer pants...
   >
   > Mike
   >
   > Dan Warlick wrote:
   > > Agreed 100%.
   > >
   > >
   > > ----- Original Message -----
   > > From: "LS" <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
   > > To: "Daniel" <edwf430 [at] att.net>
   > > Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
   > > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:58 AM
   > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] BUGATTI WOW ! - (NFC)
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > Is it really an engineering accomplishment? I beg to differ,
   > it has 24
   > > turbos and 50000 horsepower. Big deal...a kid could predict that.
   > >
   > > An engineering accomplishment would be to design a car that
   > could do the
   > > same with 600bhp or without all of the complication...and a
   > lot of race cars
   > > have come close to that. There's nothing impressive about a
   > 4700lb "sporty"
   > > car that is as complicated as the Veyron.
   > >
   > > McLaren F1 is still the ultimate!
   > >
   > > LS
   > >
   > >
   > >
   > > ----- Original Message ----
   > > From: E M <pokiebaron [at] gmail.com>
   > > To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
   > > Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
   > > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:45:43 AM
   > > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] BUGATTI WOW ! - (NFC)
   > >
   > > I think the record was set by a Peugeot, of 253 mph, or 406
   > kmh. I think
   > > they put the twisties in Mulsanne straight, late 80's real
   > 90's to help
   > > keep top speeds down.
   > >
   > > I think the old porsche 917s were touching up near 240 mph,
   > but I can't find
   > > any official times for it posted.
   > >
   > > The thing with the BUG, if you drive it like that, you'll be
   > out of gas in
   > > about 12 minutes, if you start with a full tank, and tires
   > probably not long
   > > after. lol. Still, it is quite the engineering accomplishment
   > for a road
   > > car!! ;-)
   > >
   > > Ed
   > > 911SC
   > >
   > > 2009/3/30 <red5hilser [at] aol.com>
   > >
   > >
   > >> Does any Tifosi out there know what the all-time top speed
   > reached on the
   > >> straight at Le Mans is? I think it's not too much slower than
   > this. Just
   > >> wondering . . .
   > >>
   > >> Yer pal, Ferrari Bubba
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
   > >>
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   Philip "Phil" Tegtmeier
   39 Churchill Drive
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