Ferrari Mailing List: Re: More power little motors

[LS (lashdeep]

One very important thing to remember is that displacement does *not* equate to 
engine size.

Many of the cute, little, impressively "efficient" powerplants are secretly 
massive and heavy.

Remember that 944 Turbo? 

It seemed so "high tech" next to a Ferrari until you photographed the engine 
bay near a tape measure. 




________________________________
From: philville dejazzd.com <philville [at] dejazzd.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:35:21 AM
Subject: More power little motors

I recall a Lancia 1.2 L 4 cyl ( and if you do not know the engine it is sweet) 
DOHC's in a very narrow V so they accomplis this with 2 cams.
 
At any rate my recollection was 450 HP ....and this was probably 30 years 
ago.......some of the under 1L engines (many of which were Fiat based were real 
jewels OSCA had a really beautiful 850cc engine but I do not recall the HP.
Phil ( who needs huge and heavy )

----- Original Message -----
From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Date: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:28 am
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] BUGATTI WOW ! - (NFC)
To: Phil Tegtmeier <philville [at] dejazzd.com>
Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com

> 
> I'd like to see car manufacturers engineer components that 
> are simpler and lighter. 1000bhp in  Veyron is impressive 
> quantitatively. But, when you look at how it was accomplished, 
> it's not so great. 4 turbochargers on an already massive and 
> heavy engine? Doesn't it get 8mpg? There's not much to be proud 
> of there.
> 
> 400bhp engine with 20mph and variable valve timing? Why not 
> 400bhp with 25mpg *without* variable valve timing and with the 
> same powerband?
> 
> Complexitiy and added engineering doesn't always make something 
> better does it?
> 
> Mike, I'm with you on the hands free phone calls! :)
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Mike Fleischer <themightytoe [at] gmail.com>
> To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
> Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
> Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:00:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] BUGATTI WOW ! - (NFC)
> 
> I am not certain I agree with either point...  These cars are 
> fodder for 
> adolescent fantasy no question but engineering superiority?
> 
> Creating limited production run, hand assembled vehicles is not 
> really 
> much different than building a race car, both have a list of 
> rules to 
> follow (wether its FIA regulations for a spoiler placement or 
> door 
> intrusion during a side impact).  Production numbers differ a 
> bit (in 
> some cases not really that much)...
> 
> Clearly the motors and drive trains and chassis and 
> wheels/tires/suspension can show some significant innovation but 
> none of 
> these "supercars" represent more than beautiful styling, 
> expensive 
> materials, hot rodded motors and a large price tag.  By that 
> measure, 
> the Mac F1, the F40, even the Enzo, are really impressive cars, 
> but 
> engineering accomplishments?  Not really as much as they are an 
> exercise 
> in mechanical aptitude and visual design.
> 
> Let's face facts, automotive innovation is very few and far 
> between...  
> Its mostly an exercise in accounting (even at Ferrari) and 
> marketing.  
> Real engineering is happening, but most of that is related to 
> improving 
> efficiencies, or manufacturing costs or any other aspect that 
> makes the 
> cars more profitable and sell-able.
> 
> Here are some automotive stuff that are really innovative (that 
> you can 
> actually see on your car):
> 
> Toyota's Prius (give them props where they are due)
> Volkswagen's TDI cars
> Run flat tires
> In car navigation
> Hands free phone calls
> Regenerative brake systems
> Direct Injection
> Variable valve control
> Vehicle auto-cruise control
> Vehicle auto-parking...
> 
> Most of the other stuff has been rolled into the manufacturing 
> like 
> cracked piston rods, or lower tolerances on bearings because of 
> engine 
> oil improvements, single piece engine blocks, removal of piston 
> sleeve 
> liners, or more consistent body panels due to better stamping 
> machinery...
> While some of the supercars may use these, none of them were 
> early 
> adopters...
> 
> That said, The Bugatti Veyron is just plain ugly.  Sorry, I do 
> not care 
> for it at all, style wise its just hideous and has no appeal 
> whatsoever 
> to me.  Impressive performance on it, but yuck, the automotive 
> equivalent of plaid golfer pants...
> 
> Mike
> 
> Dan Warlick wrote:
> > Agreed 100%.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "LS" <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
> > To: "Daniel" <edwf430 [at] att.net>
> > Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:58 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] BUGATTI WOW ! - (NFC)
> >
> >
> >
> > Is it really an engineering accomplishment? I beg to differ, 
> it has 24 
> > turbos and 50000 horsepower. Big deal...a kid could predict that.
> >
> > An engineering accomplishment would be to design a car that 
> could do the 
> > same with 600bhp or without all of the complication...and a 
> lot of race cars 
> > have come close to that. There's nothing impressive about a 
> 4700lb "sporty" 
> > car that is as complicated as the Veyron.
> >
> > McLaren F1 is still the ultimate!
> >
> > LS
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----
> > From: E M <pokiebaron [at] gmail.com>
> > To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
> > Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> > Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 9:45:43 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Ferrari] BUGATTI WOW ! - (NFC)
> >
> > I think the record was set by a Peugeot, of 253 mph, or 406 
> kmh. I think
> > they put the twisties in Mulsanne straight, late 80's real 
> 90's to help
> > keep top speeds down.
> >
> > I think the old porsche 917s were touching up near 240 mph, 
> but I can't find
> > any official times for it posted.
> >
> > The thing with the BUG, if you drive it like that, you'll be 
> out of gas in
> > about 12 minutes, if you start with a full tank, and tires 
> probably not long
> > after. lol. Still, it is quite the engineering accomplishment 
> for a road
> > car!! ;-)
> >
> > Ed
> > 911SC
> >
> > 2009/3/30 <red5hilser [at] aol.com>
> >
> >  
> >> Does any Tifosi out there know what the all-time top speed 
> reached on the
> >> straight at Le Mans is? I think it's not too much slower than 
> this. Just
> >> wondering . . .
> >>
> >> Yer pal, Ferrari Bubba
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Get there faster with the MapQuest Toolbar. Try it now.
> >>
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> >>
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> >>
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Philip "Phil" Tegtmeier 
39 Churchill Drive 
Elverson Pa 19520 

610.525.8949 
And, go to: ... www.PhilvilleUSA.com