Ferrari Mailing List: Re: 308 Engine Rebuild II

(continued)

cLyDe I have to know:  what is a Manpad?

K

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 15, 2009, at 8:06 AM, clyde romero  

<clyderomero [at] worldnet.att.net> wrote:

Mike I would strongly advise you not to rebuild and here is why. If  

your

engine experienced that much heat no doubt after several cycles  

according to

you, you have most likely warped the block as well and will never  

get a true

crankshaft with the main bearings. This will subsequently cause major

problems down the road. Remember the block is aluminum and suffered  

repeated

overheating cycles. You will be throwing good money after bad.

Ferrari 3 series all of them to include the 430 are running right at  

the

thermal limit with regards to cooling. And a the 308 had the biggest
radiator of the series, it had a USD size one not a small euro one.
Do as you see fit I wish you well and keep us informed

Clyde

Capt. Clyde Romero Jr.
Manpad SME
Clyderomero [at] worldnet.att.net
Mobile 678 641 9932

Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail (including attachments) is  

covered by

the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S. C., Sections  

2510-2521,

and is intended only for the person or entity to which it is  

addressed, and

may contain confidential or privileged material. Any unauthorized  

review,

use, disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or distribution is
prohibited.

If you are not the intended recipient contact the sender by reply e- 

mail and

destroy all copies of the original message. If you are the intended

recipient but do not wish to receive communications through this  

medium

please so advise the sender immediately.
Electronic Transmission Security Notice: E-mail transmission cannot be

guaranteed to be secure or error-free. The sender does not accept  

liability

for any errors or omissions in the contents of the message that  

arise as a

result of its electronic (e-mail) transmission.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael James [mailto:cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 7:52 PM
To: clyde
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 308 Engine Rebuild II

During engine dis-assembly, there were a few things noted - most of  

the

hoses and wires around the block have been 'cooked' from years of
overheating, and the head gaskets were experiencing some minor liquid

seepage.  We could tell from this, and some of the old service  

records, that

the car had been overheating before I bought it but never correctly
diagnosed.

Prior to removal of the heads, each head bolt was 're-torqued' where  

they

were when the cam covers were removed.  This was done to 'see where  

they

are'.  Two were loose, another was found to be VERY loose - a defect  

in the

head casting prevented the factory head-bolt wrench from slipping  

over the

head nut for re-torquing, This nut was finger-tight, at best, and the

factory tool had to be cut-down to access the nut for torquing and  

removal.

The rear heads almost fell off the car, the front heads required  

minimal

pursuasion - I've heard horror stories about pulling QV heads off  

the block

before, but mine were easily removed.....

The head gasket looked alright - there were dark 'traces' from the  

edges of

the cylinder liners (exhaust gas leakage?) but no cracks or  

tears.....the

first smoking gun was when the transfer case cover was removed,  

along with

the water manifolds that are under the plenum and feed coolant to  

the heads

and block - large amounts of mineral 'deposits', like arterial  

blockage, had

formed throughout all of the tubes - large amounts of corrosion and  

scale

were everywhere, impeding the coolant's ability to 'flow'.  Coolant  

leakage

existed on all of the Block Galley Plugs, as well as coolat  

corrosion at

the #8 exhaust port.  I'm guessing the years of 'sitting' had caused  

the

coolant/water to coagulate, which had coated the passages with 'gunk'

unreachable with your garden-variety radiator flush.  This gunk had  

also

completely blocked one of the water pipes running to the top of the  

7/8

cylinder passages, which was found after the pipes had been cleaned of
the hard-mineral scale (looks like white calcium build-up).

When we found this, the next step was to pull the pistons AND the  

liners to

see how bad things are in the block.  We have one piston liner out  

now - it

was VERY difficult to remove, but the liner looks pretty good.  We  

may be

able to save those, provided we can re-surface the inside.  The  

piston rings

are shot - leakdown numbers on most cylinders is above 12% (should  

be 5% or

less, according the the Factory cold-leakdown spec) and #7 piston  

had around

50%-80% leakdown - BAD.  My engine has 36K miles on it - high heat

conditions do more damage than just cooking one's oil apparently (I  

have

burnt oil glazing everything at the bottom-end).

The crank was especially interesting - all of the bearings here were  

TOAST.

The Crank looks perfect, but the bearings look like they came out of  

a car

with over 100K miles on it.  We're concerned that the head 'might'  

have an

issue and need re-honing.  The cams were gone-over with a fine-tooth  

comb,

and no unusual wear on the cams or the cam caps were found, so we're

confident that little-to-no head warpage exists.  The heads are in  

the shop

now for examination, crack testing and thorough cleaning.  New  

Valves seats

and guides will also go-in, and each valve will be checked as well  

as new

shims installed.

Most-every seal or gasket in the engine was actively weeping oil -  

they

don't last forever, so everything that leaks is getting replaced.  The

block, at the bare-minimum, will need to be chemically dipped to  

clean-out

the crap blocking the coolant passages and around the cylinder  

liners.  I

don't know what was used for coolant (maybe pure water?), but if its  

allowed

to sit for long periods of time without periodic flushing it WILL  

gunk-up

the engine.  This car obviously 'sat' for far too long, never had  

something

simple as having its fluids replaced regularly, and now its time  

take out

that second mortgage.

Did I mention that my engine ran quite WELL, aside from the  

overheating?

Make no mistake, Ferrari engines are tough bastards.....

M

--- On Sat, 11/14/09, Michael James <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>  

wrote:

From: Michael James <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 308 Engine Rebuild
To: "Doug and Terri Anderson" <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 5:01 PM

Yea.....this looks pretty bad.  I tore-into my engine for a 30K

engine service this summer, and decided to think about what was  

causing an

overheating issue I've battled for five years now.  As Charles Perry  

can

attest, I've tried everything under the sun to fix the problem - new  

coolant

hoses/clamps, three new/different thermostats, rebuilt water pump,  

new fan

switch, new high-speed fans, new thermo-time switch, half-a-dozen new

radiator caps of various BAR ratings, high-capacity aluminum racing  

radiator

(three, first two had pin-holes in the welds), removed the CAT,

ceramic-coated much of the exhaust system, flushed the cooling  

system, etc.

etc. etc.

Still, the car would overheat if I drove less than 40 mph - above that

speed, the inrush of air would compensate for the overheating engine  

and

keep the car cool.  At highway speeds, the car would run all-day- 

long just

fine.  In stop-n-go traffic, the engine would attempt thermonuclear

meltdown.  Something was 'wrong', and I feared it was in the head/ 

block

coolant journals.  A friend/fellow mechanic stuck a 4-gas analyzer  

in my

coolant expansion tank and measured CO2 levels there last summer -  

he found

well-over 100 ppm of CO2 and rising when the engine got hot.  That was
indicative of a head gasket failure.....hmmm.

SO, I had an oil sample sent-off to Blackstone Labs for analysis  

during my

30K service.....they didn't find any traces of coolant in my oil.   

In fact,

my oil looked quite good, with normal levels of metals and water.   

SO, the

only thing to do was have my local mechanic pull the motor and yank- 

off the

heads to determine just what in the hell was really going on in  

there......

Some history of my car - I had bought a vehicle that was stored for  

a long

period of time by a Doctor, who had purchased the car as an  

'investment' in

the late 1990s.  He never drove it, and really didn't do anything in  

the

ways of preventative maintenance.  He did drop over $14,000 at  

various times

including a full-boat 30K service around 1997, but did nothing  

between then

and 2004...the mileage was low, and cosmetically perfect.....a PPI by

Norwoods in TX said that I had a very-solid driver with some  

interesting

leakdown numbers (that I didn't understand and they didn't interpret  

for me)

that were well-over 10%.

--- On Sat, 11/14/09, Doug and Terri Anderson <dnt [at] dock.net> wrote:

From: Doug and Terri Anderson <dnt [at] dock.net>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Politics - Not List Material
To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 10:55 AM

308 engine rebuild ya say???
What year
How long did it take
You do it yer self?
DOUG

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael James" <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>
To: "DOUG" <dnt [at] dock.net>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 9:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Politics - Not List Material

Larry, I think you'll find such information fundamentally flawed.  

Most folks

get their health insurance through their employer - as costs rise in

healthcare and the insurance premiums rise to pay for it, its our  

nation's

employers who are taking it in the shorts. Company profits fall as  

health

care costs rise, which makes it more-and-more expensive for US  

Companies to

offer and pay-for this benefit to American employees. Many of these

employer-backed plans are paring-down benefits that used to be much  

more

all-inclusive years ago. We're paying more, and getting less  

coverage than

ever before. And I firmly believe this fact is part of what is  

driving US

companies to move the bulk of their businesses overseas where  

providing such

benefits is unnecessary or radically cheaper than what they have to  

pay in

the US.

Let's also not forget that individual deductables have greatly  

increased

over the years to stem the tide....and that elderly end-of-life care  

hasn't

reached critical-mass yet (the coming tsunami of Baby Boomer retirees

demanding care well into their 90s will come sooner than you think).  

It

would be premature to determine what, exactly, people should be  

'happy'

with. We'll see how happy everyone is when six-digit medical bills  

become

the societal norm, and insurance companies get to decide who lives  

and who

dies based on what they feel like paying-for regarding medical  

services.

Remember, the private medical insurance community is a for-profit  

entity

first and foremost. Their primary business goal is to make a profit  

for

their shareholders - above all else. Such is the law of
Capitalism/Free-Enterprise. If they provide us with the services and

coverage we need to survive while they make a profit, great. If they  

can cut

corners with our coverage/services to continue to make a profit,  

fine by

them. If they can find a loophole somewhere that allows them to  

'skip' on

covering a $500,000 critical-care medical bill and protect THEIR

bottom-line, they will. It's just business. Never mind the financial  

or

medical impact on YOU. If this situation wasn't happening,  

everywhere, then

Tort lawyers would be greatly under-employed - but they're not, are  

they?

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why NeoCons insist that  

"there is

no problem".....the status quo is somehow 'perfect', because the  

Rich get to

afford the greatest healthcare in the world on-demand with no  

limitations.

Good for them - the rest of us get rationed healthcare today based  

on our

income and job status.

Does anyone want to hear about my 308 engine rebuild?

M

--- On Fri, 11/13/09, LarryT <l02turner [at] comcast.net> wrote:

From: LarryT <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Politics - Not List Material
To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 5:25 PM

Sorry Lee, my memory failed me (again - but I forgot) - it's actually

between 80% [and 89% cited below] as in <<the Washington Post/ABC  

Poll, 81%

of those sampled were satisfied with their present health care  

insurance

policy. >>

and <<CNN poll finds that more than 80% of Americans are satisfied  

with the

quality of their health care.>>

and <<the Kaiser Family Foundation, ABC News and USA Today, released  

in

October 2006, found that 89 percent of Americans were satisfied with  

their

own personal medical care, [and] Those with recent serious health  

problems,

possibly the people with the best knowledge of how health care is  

working,

were generally the most satisfied. Ninety-three percent of insured  

Americans

who had recently suffered a serious illness were satisfied with  

their health

care. So were 95 percent of those who suffered from chronic illness.>>

and on and on.

LarryT

OilAnalysis Time?
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
www.youroil.net

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Lee S. Lingo" <leescars [at] comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 1:55 PM
To: "LarryT" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: RE: [Ferrari] Politics - Not List Material

Larry,

Not even getting into the healthcare reform discussion, but where  

do you

cite your 90% number from & how can you back up your statement as  

fact

that we have the best healthcare system in the world. While I believe
that without a doubt we do, I cannot difinitively prove that as fact.

I was just wondering how you can flame someone else for posting  

facts they

think are true & citing a source to prove it while you can put  

forth only

opinions but post them as truth. Seems a little arrogant to me.

Oh, and I do not know for sure, but perhaps Mauricio, like me has  

tired of

the elitist rhetoric & hijacking of the list for political topics  

and only

checks his list email every few days. If that is the case, one might

surmise that his email was a response to your last political  

posting to

the list two or three days ago. I don't know.

I love talking cars with you guys & have found this list an  

invaluable

source of information on many topics over the years, many of which  

were

not car related. But when it comes to talking politics & religion,  

most

people turn into know-it-all ass holes and we are all no exception to
that.

Lee

-----Original Message-----
From: LarryT <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 1:28 PM
To: Lee Lingo <leescars [at] comcast.net>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Politics - Not List Material

Thanks For that comment Steve! I love this list because of the  

depth of

knowledge - I ask a lot of OT questions about TVs, DVD's Financing  

and

other

high tech stuff and I always KNOW I'll get a answer - usually it's  

correct

to boot! ;-)

BTW, what was Mauricio talking about? I must have missed something.  

His

comment about Obams spending didn't ring true but Jim fired back  

before I

could check facts (thx Jim!). I know I've heard Obama has spent  

more in

his

1st 8 months that all other presidents have before him - combined!  

I'll

find the backup shortly.

As far as the heath car system - we have the best system in the  

world, it

costs a lot but that's because we have methods for healing never  

dreamed

of

before. Also, IIRC, 90% of the population is happy with their  

situation.

If the illegal aliens & young people who don't want or need  

insurance are

taken out of the question we have a problem os maybe 10 million -  

instead

of

turning the medical system over to the USGov, to the tune of $1  

tril (most

likely $3 Tril) we could *buy* them insurance for much less money! Of
course, don't advocate that - the govt doesn't need to be any more
involved

in health insurance and retirement than they already are - it  

should be

less

but that won't happen - it's like having a car with a flat tire -  

you fix

the tire, not buy a whole new car! Unless you're Mauricio I guess.

Later -
LarryT

_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/cavallino_rapante%40yah
oo.com

Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
and F1 Headlines
http://www.F1Headlines.com/

_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/dnt%40dock.net

Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
and F1 Headlines
http://www.F1Headlines.com/

_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/cavallino_rapante%40yah
oo.com

Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
and F1 Headlines
http://www.F1Headlines.com/

_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:

http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/clyderomero%40worldnet 

.

att.net

Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
and F1 Headlines
http://www.F1Headlines.com/
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

Version: 9.0.707 / Virus Database: 270.14.63/2500 - Release Date:  

11/15/09

02:50:00

_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/rentiers%40mail.com

Sponsored by BooyahMedia.com
and F1 Headlines
http://www.F1Headlines.com/

Re: 308 Engine Rebuild II	<– Date –> <– Thread –>
From: Ken Rentiers (rentiersme.com)
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:16:01 -0800 (PST)