| Re: 599 | <– Date –> <– Thread –> |
From: E M (pokiebaron gmail.com)
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| Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 19:23:59 -0700 (PDT) | |
Hi Larry,
If I was interested/could afford a Ferrari for track use, I would look to one of the V8 cars. The main reason being, several of the models have been offered up in race series form. For a lot of people, a Ferrari is a second or third car, not a daily driver, so if interested in optimizing it for the track, one of the cars that was subjected to a development program for a single marque race series, would probably offer the best factory tech support, as well as tried and tested parts for the track. (348, 360, 430) all have components available, that are intended for track use I believe. So if I was serious about running a Ferrari on the track, or regular DE events, that's that I would look at. I like the Dino, and 328, but the truth is, at a DE event, you would probably spend more time trying to keep out of everyone's way, than focusing on honing your track and driving skills. The TRs were Ferrari's GT cars of the day. Again, no personal experience, but I'm told the TRs just don't have the brakes for track use. The clutch gets a bit soft after several laps of serious caning too. The 512 is a great car, but again, never conceived as a track car. It's a big GT car!
So, I would get a V8, made in the last 15 years or so. To really hone your driving skills, I'd opt for a stick too. Nothing like performing a really good H&T downshift. Yes, if you get it wrong, you'll have a repair bill, unlike the paddle shift which will hold and delay your "request" until engine/road/tire speeds are correct to execute. But that's just good motivation to get it right, rather than blasting into a corner, way over your head, with a false sense of security, that the paddle shifter, and other aids will save your hide. For those inexperienced guys who go that route, often end up crashing, just harder, and at higher speeds. I'm also not a big fan of really sticky tires for DE events. Great for a real "race", but often they just lower a lap time at a DE and give the driver the impression he's better than he is. Same deal, when you do crash, you'll just be going a lot faster on sticky tires when it happens, and it will hurt you and your car a lot more.
I know some would chose an older model for the track, saying they are more economical to run on the track, but really, there is no such thing as a cheap way to run a Ferrari on a track, and I don't care what anyone says, tracking a car DOES subject it to wear that is just impossible to do on the street!
There are many who say, "they (Ferraris, Porsches, BMWs) are race cars, they are designed to take track use". I have never believed that. There are two kinds of cars, road cars, and race cars. A number of road cars have been given the track treatment and optimized for track use, as much as they can be, often to promote a model, but they are just that, modified road cars. Ferrari builds great race cars, but they come with one seat, wings, and no fenders. Everything else they make are road cars, some just better suited to occasional track use.
Those are my thoughts, and I'm now rambling on way more than a Porsche guy has the right to on a Ferrari list. hee hee. But hey, I feel the same about Porsches too.
Ed
911SC
If I was interested/could afford a Ferrari for track use, I would look to one of the V8 cars. The main reason being, several of the models have been offered up in race series form. For a lot of people, a Ferrari is a second or third car, not a daily driver, so if interested in optimizing it for the track, one of the cars that was subjected to a development program for a single marque race series, would probably offer the best factory tech support, as well as tried and tested parts for the track. (348, 360, 430) all have components available, that are intended for track use I believe. So if I was serious about running a Ferrari on the track, or regular DE events, that's that I would look at. I like the Dino, and 328, but the truth is, at a DE event, you would probably spend more time trying to keep out of everyone's way, than focusing on honing your track and driving skills. The TRs were Ferrari's GT cars of the day. Again, no personal experience, but I'm told the TRs just don't have the brakes for track use. The clutch gets a bit soft after several laps of serious caning too. The 512 is a great car, but again, never conceived as a track car. It's a big GT car!
So, I would get a V8, made in the last 15 years or so. To really hone your driving skills, I'd opt for a stick too. Nothing like performing a really good H&T downshift. Yes, if you get it wrong, you'll have a repair bill, unlike the paddle shift which will hold and delay your "request" until engine/road/tire speeds are correct to execute. But that's just good motivation to get it right, rather than blasting into a corner, way over your head, with a false sense of security, that the paddle shifter, and other aids will save your hide. For those inexperienced guys who go that route, often end up crashing, just harder, and at higher speeds. I'm also not a big fan of really sticky tires for DE events. Great for a real "race", but often they just lower a lap time at a DE and give the driver the impression he's better than he is. Same deal, when you do crash, you'll just be going a lot faster on sticky tires when it happens, and it will hurt you and your car a lot more.
I know some would chose an older model for the track, saying they are more economical to run on the track, but really, there is no such thing as a cheap way to run a Ferrari on a track, and I don't care what anyone says, tracking a car DOES subject it to wear that is just impossible to do on the street!
There are many who say, "they (Ferraris, Porsches, BMWs) are race cars, they are designed to take track use". I have never believed that. There are two kinds of cars, road cars, and race cars. A number of road cars have been given the track treatment and optimized for track use, as much as they can be, often to promote a model, but they are just that, modified road cars. Ferrari builds great race cars, but they come with one seat, wings, and no fenders. Everything else they make are road cars, some just better suited to occasional track use.
Those are my thoughts, and I'm now rambling on way more than a Porsche guy has the right to on a Ferrari list. hee hee. But hey, I feel the same about Porsches too.
Ed
911SC
On 14 June 2010 16:06, Larry B <larrybard [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
I'm very interested in what you think would be the best ones for track use? I know that there are several listers, and of course other owners, who have tracked their 512TRs, but that has little or no appeal for me (except insofar as I could hear the engine wail at some place like the Glen.) My track car (and daily driver) is a 993, which I think is just right for me, but I've been curious about red alternatives.
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 12:19:31 -0400
From: pokiebaron [at] gmail.com
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 599
CC: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
To: larrybard [at] hotmail.com
I think the cars of today, like the 599, demand more and more HP for bragging rights. Most who buy them can't really drive them, so they then need to develop ways to keep cars with 600HP out of the ditch, with such things as traction control, paddle shifts that protect from downshifting at the wrong time and change gears in such a way to make most think they are way better than they really are. I think cars like the 599 would be much more enjoyable to the enthusiast, if they had 100-150 LESS hp, and a manual box. End of the day, the 599 is a GT car, and no "trackie" is going to opt for one. They may take it out on the odd DE day just to stretch it a bit, but there are far better tools for track use. Therefore, 600HP in what is a road going GT car is a bit over the top. You're also fueling a car 100% of the time, that will spend 99% of it's life using less than 200-300HP at any given time. I know, fuel isn't a big deal with a 599 owner, but such things are becoming a pain for manufactures.
Having said all that, I don't own, haven't driven, and probably never will, a 599, so my my opinions are worth pretty much nothing. hee hee
Ed
911SC
On 14 June 2010 10:19, Mike Fleischer <themightytoe [at] gmail.com> wrote:
So you would rather drive, say a Miata?
:)
Totally understand though. A car like that needs to frighten you a bit.
Mike
Peter Pless wrote:
>
> 600hp. Yep…BUT to get a thrill out of it you HAVE to drive it at
> insane speeds. That’s just not doable in this day and age. At any
> other speed its competence makes it as good as driving an SL55 or
> something. Big deal.
>
> *From:* Mike Fleischer [mailto:themightytoe [at] gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, 13 June 2010 11:49 PM
> *To:* Peter Pless
> *Cc:* 'The FerrariList'
> *Subject:* Re: [Ferrari] 599
>
> Ha,
>
> I abhor boredom (and automatics), but how could it be boring with 600+
> prancing horses under the hood? Surely you could find some
> entertainment there?
>
> I mean I remember driving a dealer's Mas 3200GT paddle shifter at TWS
> (he told me to take some students and go flog on it a bit)... While I
> was not overwhelmed by the car, it was still not boring :) Maybe you
> just need to get it a bit more sideways?
>
> Peter Pless wrote:
>
> Me. The car is perfect and perfectly boring. JMO
>
> But….fantastic car just the same. Couldn’t fault anything about it,
> unless you dislike boredom J
>
> *From:* Fellippe Galletta [mailto:fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, 13 June 2010 11:35 AM
> *To:* Peter Pless
> *Cc:* The FerrariList
> *Subject:* [Ferrari] 599
>
> Curious....who here has driven it?
>
> Nobody ever really talked about the way this thing drives and the power.
>
> -- FG
>
>
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- Re: Track insurance, (continued)
- Re: Track insurance Fellippe Galletta, June 14 2010
- Re: 599 E M, June 14 2010
- Re: 599 Peter Pless, June 14 2010
- Re: 599 E M, June 14 2010
- Re: 599 E M, June 14 2010
- Re: 599 LarryT, June 15 2010
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