The hard-part is finding someone who has off-the-shelf parts that 'fit' - most of these vendors haven't been given specs for Ferrari applications, and there's not enough market-share for these folks to do it on their own R&D dime. I would KILL for the day I can shop for Ferrari parts from a JEGS catalog, but we ain't there yet. For a limited-production car, I doubt we ever will. Oh, they'll take your money to custom-fabricate something for you...if you're James Glickenhaus and you're re-assembling a 330 P4 with 'blank-check' resources. Who would spend that for a 308/328/348 that has a book-value of $40K? Once some of these cars get 'broken' enough, they'll stay broke. Just sayin'
M
--- On Mon, 8/16/10, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 512BBRR
To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 9:59 AM
Michael, agreed, why would you put in junk?
Then again, for you what you're describing, top tier competition manufacturers like Moldex, Callies, Arias may indeed be overkill for your application. You may be okay sticking with OEM quality and have plenty of durability built in.
But, the point I was trying to make was that some of these aftermarket companies may be cheaper. The nice side effect is that the parts will be much better than OEM also...bonus! It's a win-win.
LS
From: Michael James <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:41:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 512BBRR
|
We're having pistons/rings and such reproduced locally by ARP - they're better metallurgy and technology than OEM, and much cheaper. But this was only considered AFTER extensive research, with all things considered. It doesn't make much sense to get other things such as bearings 'on-the-cheap' from some of these fly-by-night aftermarket vendors. You don't know what quality you're really buying, what specs/tolerances are being offered, or whether they'll hold-up to a high-performance application such as a Ferrari. This ain't grandpa's Buick we're re-building here.....my engine will be built to better-than-factory specs, with more HP and torque (higher compression) but will have a 1-year Warranty on the engine. I'm not getting a 'hand-grenade' from my mechanic. He guarantees his work. BTW, he rebuilt his own Boxer motor - a 365 BB, with 12:1 compression on pump-gas. He knows what he's doing.
M
--- On Mon, 8/16/10, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 512BBRR
To: "Michael James" <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 9:30 AM
Michael, are you doing a concours restoration?
If not, why not have the engine parts reproduced by domestic vendors?
Moldex did a reproduction crank for my old Cadillac for $3000. It was billet and was light years better in quality than 30yr old Ferrari pieces.
LS
From: Michael James <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Mon, August 16, 2010 9:04:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 512BBRR
|
Yup - and Labor is alittle less than 1/3 of the total cost...the rest is parts and machine-shop work. Did you Magnaflux everyting? Everything passed? Who made your parts? Then again, I have NIKASIL liners, perhaps you don't - they're not really re-usable, and you can't hone them. When they're toast, you're looking for Mahle-Germany's phone number.
True story with Caribou: My mechanic takes 70 measurements to determine the suitabiltiy of a Crankshaft before he'll put it back in a car - Caribou took TWO measurements to determine that they had a 'good, used' crankshaft to sell me when mine failed Magnaflux testing. A OEM Crank will cost you $2,300 or more (IF you can find one). Caribou offered one they said was 'perfect' for $1,000. They wouldn't guarantee it - my Mechanic was VERY leery of 'two measurements', so we twisted their arm to guarantee the crank.
What we got in the mail was, uh, 'less' than perfect. But better than others, so we moved forward. There was dirt/grit in the donor-car's oil, resulting in scratches on the Crank lobes that wouldn't polish-out. The crank did pass Magnaflux, but we did end-up honing the Crank, and had to buy Vanderwall First-Oversize bearings ($hundreds MORE than standard-size bearings) to get consistency across all surfaces. If Caribou is 'the-shiznit' when it comes to engine-building, why didn't they notice the scratches on the Crank lobes they sold me??? Yea, I wonder....
M
--- On Mon, 8/16/10, Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au> wrote:
From: Peter Pless <ferrarilist [at] pless.com.au>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 512BBRR
To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "'The FerrariList'" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Monday, August 16, 2010, 8:21 AM
Really?? I had one done 2 years ago for $15kausâ.for everythingâpistons, valves, rings, all bearings.
From: Michael James [mailto:cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, 16 August 2010 10:12 PM
To: Peter Pless
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 512BBRR
Those numbers have to be low - Boxer-12 engine parts, even the fabricated kind, are near-double what 308 parts go for these days. $30K buys you a 308 engine rebuild now, BTW. And that's with aftermarket (less expensive than factory) pistons for more compression, as this Boxer has. Add porting/polishing the heads, flow-bench work, custom sodium valves, etc. that the 308-rebuild won't get.....More like $50K+ for the engine alone. Caribou isn't 'cheap labor', which is why they mentioned that this was done with a blank check and little restraint.
--- On Sun, 8/15/10, LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
From: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 512BBRR
To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Date: Sunday, August 15, 2010, 7:53 PM
Not sure, but I'd estimate this build up to be in the region of $50k including parts and labor.
The engine work must've been $30k at least...not cheap to mod Ferrari.
100bhp over stock is legit though.
LS
From: Fellippe Galletta <fellippe.galletta [at] gmail.com>
To: LS <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
Cc: The FerrariList <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Sun, August 15, 2010 1:56:14 PM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] 512BBRR
http://www.carobu.com/html/project_cars.html
Just in case anyone wanted to talk Ferrari today...
The BB in the link above looks positively delicious.
Indeed it very well does!!
Thanks Lashdeep for starting my sunday off right....
Question....any idea how much this project cost???
Having seen a ghetto 512BB in person and being somewhat impressed I could only imagine the street presence of this monster...
FG
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