Ferrari Mailing List: Carbs, fire and costs

[Rick (rolindsay]

Hi Friends, 

I don't write much here now but I find a little extra time this morning and the topics referenced intrigue me. Specifically, engine fires and parts/service costs. I read the List in digest format so the author's ID sometimes get lost. Therefore I will quote without reference. Please forgive that indiscretion.

First up is the age-old topic of fuel fires. 

> Other than the engine being behind the driver making leaking gas

> smells less evident than a front engine car,  I don't see the carbed 308

> any more prone to engine fires than any other carbed car.

There are three main issues here; fuel hose failure, crap quality hose clamps, and the Webers themselves.

The last  carburetted 308 was built 35 years ago and I would bet that many of them still have a length of original fuel hose somewhere, plus reused hose clamps. Unfortunately these cars are so much fun to drive that we often delay proper maintenance (unless we are Rob or Rui)! Added to the age of the car's old hoses is the problem of the alcohol that contaminates today's fuel. Together, we have the source of the first problem: leaks.

My '79 308GTB has all new alcohol safe fuel hoses attached with new fuel injection style hose clamps. The hose is readily available and FI hose clamps cost only pennies more than the garden hose clamps we're tempted to use, if replaced at all.

Issue two is the Webers themselves. Its a basic design fact: Webers spit fuel, and they do so even when ignition and valve timing is perfect. Its a fact of life. That's why it is disasterous to operate a Weber-fed engine without a correct air cleaner in place - even for test drives! 

So the answer for fire safety is fresh hoses, good quality hose clamps, and proper air cleaner installation.

> The CIS injected cars with brittle injection lines are a more

> likely candidate for an engine fire.

I don't believe this is an issue unless the lines have been abused (e.g. crimped). The lines are very rugged, as are the banjos. But remember, these cars are about 30 years old too! And a K-Jetronic system operates at more than an order of magnitude higher pressure than do carburetted systems.

New hard lines installed with new copper crush washers at the banjos, is a manageable expense during any major service. Probably needed only once unless you keep the car for 30 more years.

Continuing to the costs topic...

> I never could figure out the service costs in the US for Ferraris but

> maybe it is as simple as supply and demand. There are a ton of very

> good quality Ferrari people in the 
UK and that means lots of

> competition and not having to drive very far...

I think Britt is right. There are very few parts providers here in the States and they hold a monopoly on parts. FWIW, I buy all my Ferrari parts - even the heavy stuff like exhausts and rotors - from Superformance in the UK. Prices are much better and shipping costs are really no more than domestic. Turnaround is about a week, England-to-Texas, and support is excellent. 

Service is a similar issue. There are very few independent car places that will touch a Ferrari. The workers typically don't understand old cars and the shop managers are terrified by the possibility of making costly mistakes. The result is $175/hour shop rate at the dealers - if they will even accept the work - or similar costs at the few specialty shops in larger cities. Fortunately I have a generic indy shop that will address simple issues, like A/C flush and recharge, and they let me use their lifts for jobs I can't do on the garage floor at home. I only use the latter option on their off business days.

So we all know what opinions are like, and how they smell. And mine are no different! I'd better go to work. These 3-hour consulting days are tough. :-P

-rick

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