Ferrari Mailing List: Re: High Capacity Magazine Firearms

[BRIGANDBAR (BRIGANDBAR]

Hi Dave:
 
You hae several valid points as far as revolver goes, and the major  
advantage to an S&W 640 is only in its "concealed carry mode.
 
I'd like to add a few experiences from "shooting incident" reviews that I  
have personally conducted or have studied. A cautionary note in that these all  
involve law enforcement officers, though their experience and training may 
vary.  One interesting point is that in many cases, particularly in the "good 
old 
days"  when the revolver was the primary firearm in most agencies, backup or 
rapid  response supervisors would find the officer continuing to pull the 
trigger on  his revolver despite the fact that the entire load in the cylinder 
had 
been  discharged. This was most prevalent when the subject had been subdued 
with a  shot from the original 5/6 shot cylinder and the necessity to reload to 
continue  the engagement was necessary.
 
This, of course, takes us back to the discussion of the necessity of high  
capacity magazine firearms for personal defense by civilians who are not  
"duty-bound".. That discussion most probably should have been further 
subdivided  
into "conceal and carry" and home defense. For "stationary" or "on property"  
defensive purposes I usually just recommend something like a Remington Mod. 
1100 
 semi automatic shotgun kept with a shotgun shell chambered, with an open or 
slug  choke and #4 buckshot in either a 2.75" or 3" magnum load (some folks 
prefer a  20 ga. to a 12 ga. which is my preference).  Why not a Mod. 870 pup 
action?  Because I have seen, in live fire training with SWAT/SRT/CRT or 
whatever you  like to call these teams, trained law enforcement officers, in 
the heat 
of  training scenarios specifically designed to simulate the psychological 
stress of  an actual encounter, fail to actuate the pump action and to continue 
to chamber  a secondary round. And, remember, these are not even just run of 
the mill street  officers who are in their own right well qualified, but this 
calibre of officer  with additional tactical training. I would also recommend 
an "older style" side  by side double barrel shotgun or one of the newer over 
and under double barrel  shotgun (which are less frequently available with the 
18' preferred barrel  length) No human interaction with the firearm required 
for the secondary round  discharge.
 
Incidentally, I've called a few trusted friends with substantial experience  
in municipal, rural and tactical police operations and not one of them could  
remember more than 2 shots being involved in a residential encounter incident  
except when a homeowner followed the subject out the door continuing to fire 
at  him, discharging an entire high capacity magazine and not hitting the 
subject  once but breaking out one street light, a couple of car windshields on 
parked  cars and putting a round into a neighbor's home through a window. But 
that was  an untrained civilian who either lacked discipline or personal 
responsibility  and perhaps should not be considered part of the norm.
 
Back to the "conceal and carry" segment. As I said previously, I carry  
either a Detonics Pocket 0 or a SigSauer Mod 239 DAK SAS. The Detonics  
frequently 
rides in an ankle holster in the summer, which renders it virtually  useless 
for an immediate action drill, but does put it on my person and not in  my car 
during the summer months when wearing soft clothes. 7 Shots in the  Detonics 
and 8 in the SigSauer (I have a Sig 229 with a high cap magazine but it  is 
really bulky and heavy to carry) and my main interest in CCW/Self-Defense  
relates to the fact that a number of my former life defendants are now 
finishing  up 
their 15 yr+ sentences in our prison system and have not been completely  
rehabilitated, and the usual civilian encounters of citizens in our society.  
Each to their own, but I don't even regularly carry a second magazine except in 
 
the glove box of my car, don't even own but one holster with room for that  
second magazine and can't remember where I put my old duty  "extra magazine  
carriers. It is now going on 36 years of military and civilian experience in 
law  
enforcement and tactical ops. and other than a tac op or military encounter 
I've  never experienced the need for any more rounds, either personally or 
those I've  reviewed.
 
If someone wants to carry a high capacity magazine firearm, or a backup, it  
certainly is not my place to give them unsolicited advice. I can only  relate 
my experiences and my conventional manner of dress, soft clothes, farm  and 
work clothes and business suits. Have at it if you deem it necessary to  
augment 
my standards of armament (Note: Dave, I'm not addressing this comment to  
you, or to the others who may concur with my opinions in this matter, only to  
those who have expressed a desire to "uparm" for self-defense and even then, 
not 
 as being critical of their decisions or perspectives).
 
One final comment, though only on a tangentially related subject. After  
making your personal defense firearm decision, be introspective and do a mental 
 
and emotional review of your capacity to actually discharge a firearm aimed at  
another human being, with the intent to kill or injure your target. You may  
"think" you have that capacity but many behavioral studies will indicate  
otherwise. It was not until the Vietnam War that more than ~50% of the line  
soldiers actually discharged their personal weapons at enemy soldiers in close  
combat. Most wartime casualties come from indirect fire. AT Gettysburg a  
significant quantity of the muskets, etc. (I'm sorry that I don't have an  
accurate 
percentage number readily at hand) were found not to have been fired,  and many 
of those contained three or more loads in the barrel indicative of a  soldier 
simulating the actions of his fellow soldiers in reloading drills so as  not 
to be discovered to not have been firing face to face at an enemy soldier..  I 
see it in the selection of forward observer (the PC term for police sniper  
today) as well. The ability to place 3 rounds under a quarter a long ranges 
does  not assure the mental ability to do the same when the target is a human 
being  and not a paper target. Major source of disqualification in the 
selection 
stage. 
 
Well I've said way too much on this subject so it is time to quit
 
Dr. Steve  

1964 Rolls  Royce Silver Cloud III    1975 Pontiac GV Conv.
1980 MB  450SL                 1982 RR  Corniche
1994 F-350 Powerstroke  4x4          1996  Bronco
2000 Lincoln Town  Car                   2004  Excursion
1995 Ferrari 348 Spyder
+ Audrey's 3x MB's

Dr.  Stephen B. Spies, CES, CFI
Director, Forensic Sciences  Laboratory
Explosives Engineering Technologies

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