Ferrari Mailing List: Re: BMW Mods/Forced Induction/Modern V8s...Re: FerrariDigest, Vol ...

Howdy,

   I think part of this started back in the 80s when the auto companies 
started their buying binge.  Now, they are so inter-related it's hard to 
tell one from another.  The shared manufacturing techniques which were 
supposed to be  based on "Best Practices"  when in reality there was a huge 
weighting  on cost effectiveness balanced against speed and quality - with 
cost always winning the argumentn anytime there was a dispute.
   Throw into that mix the new environmental laws (and others) requiring 
(among other things) X% of all car parts must be recyclable  mandating the 
manufacturing companies find new ways to meet the legal requirements while 
holding onto their profit margins.  I think some of the paint problems MB is 
having is because of the new(ish) water based paint remaining on their $100K 
luxury cars.
   Based on my observations at least --
;-)
Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D)

www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts

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.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "LS" <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>

To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>

Cc: <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>

Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 12:32 PM

Subject: Re: [Ferrari] BMW Mods/Forced Induction/Modern V8s...Re: 
FerrariDigest, Vol ...
I'll respectfully disagree with BMWs. I've recently had a mint, low
mileage E34 540i and it was put together by chimps.
The glue (F-ING GLUE!!!!) in the rear door panels leather inserts was
falling off after only 67k garaged miles. There were many wiring harnesses
routed directly over sharp sheet metal panels with no mid route fastening.
They were almost designed to wiggle loose due to their own weight. The
list goes on. And why only spot welds on certain frame panels? The E68 5
series is worse!!
I can agree with the "ride, handling, driving feel" portion of your
statement. The euro cars have fantastic chassis engineering and ergos.
They are miles away from domestics and the Japanese. The powertrains
aren't particularly clever at all. Don't ZF automatics last about as long
as air filters? Wait, that clunk when reapplying the gas after a coast is
normal? Cracked radiator necks? The list goes on and on...
The euros have the best *materials* but the build quality is barely better
than the *best* domestic cars. Don't believe the hype.
If my E34 was a manual trans, I probably would've kept it for the stable
and composed chassis, the awesome brakes and the top end rush. I really
enjoyed that car...but I didn't believe for 1 second that it was better
put together than my old 240SX or even my POS '97 Mustang.
And there were mechanical development problems (4.0 liter engine recall,
radiators, auto trans) that made you wonder. A co-worker is an E36 M3
nutcase. His list of unscheduled repairs are even longer! Leaky power
steering rack? Climate control display replacements, guibos/center diff
bearing, etc.. My convertible E30 was much better built. What happened?
Things are not the same anymore.
Are there domestics with these issues? Of course, most are worse! Are
there Japanese cars with these issues? Of course!
If we're going to praise certain makes, let's praise them for their actual
positive attributes today, not the reputation they had in 1988.
LS

uxton [at] BuxtonMotorsports.com> wrote:
As many steps forward as US car companies have taken, they are still
miles behind the Germans in luxury, ride, handling, driving feel, panel
gaps, fit and finish and overall quality of interior bits, leather,
carpet, etc.  One of my clients bought a new Cadillac XLR-V for right at
$100K and I couldn't believe how cheap the interior looked, felt and
even smelled.  I drove another clients 2007 Cadillac Escalade back to
his house after a detail and was equally unimpressed with that
interior.  But that thing is FAST for a big SUV.  Hell, it was fast for
a small car!  Great exhaust note too.
Brian

LtWacko [at] aol.com wrote:
>I whole heartedly agree with American Iron being superior in
performance in
>a straight line.  I LOVE the CTS-V and SRT-8's, but luxury is not the
same.
>I couldn't believe it when one of my friends with a CTS-V found the
Caddy not
>luxurious enough!  Surprised the heck out of me.  I thought  they were
fine
>and actually envious.  He is looking to trade the car in for  an Audi
A8L.  I
>guess he doesn't care about reliability.  Performance  and luxury in
one car
>that is somewhat affordable is not a priority for  him.  He is going to
get
>another Vette Z (old one replaced with CTS-V) to  satisfy the speed
need and get a
>"nicer" luxury car for clients (real estate  agent).
>
>In a message dated 12/29/2006 11:02:41 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>lashdeep [at] yahoo.com writes:
>
>I wish  you guys were in DC right now...this Mallet Caddie CTS will tow
a 740
>faster  than a 750 will run unladen.
>
>Interestingly, two recent E39 M5 owners  have traded up to stock CTS-Vs
for
>more electrical reliability, better fuel  economy and cheaper
maintenance...all
>with the same level of  performance.
>
>I thought the CTS-V was faster?  I know if they don't handle as well
but
>that's only at the limits which most drivers never reach anyway. BMW M
Car  and
>reliability usually can only be used in the same sentence negatively
lately.
>
>
>
>525 RWHP and 20mpg. GM engine mgmt is pretty impressive  nowadays. Have
>modern, alloy V8s rendered forced induction obsolete? Is  turbocharging
the old
>school method for making an engine both efficient and  powerful?
>No, you can turbocharge the newer motors for even higher levels of
>performance!  Can you say 750 HP plus Caddy?
>
>
>
>Z06: 26mpg, 3100lbs, 505bhp
>S2000: 28mpg, 2850lbs, 240  bhp
>
>Buddy's stock S2000 spanked my 740iL all over the powerband and I have
a
>quicker than stock gear!  I
>NEED a V12...
>
>
>
>Why is an LS1 powered 3rd Gen RX7, lighter, more powerful and  more
fuel
>efficient than a twin turbo 13B rotary powered RX7?
>
>Was the  opening scene of Apocalypse Now really the destruction of the
Kurtz
>compound?
>
>Who has answers?
>
>Women, but they are too smart to come down to our level (according to
my
>girlfriend)!
>
>Rodney
>
>
>
>LS
>
>www.exhaust.tv
>
>
>----- Original Message  ----
>From: "LtWacko [at] aol.com" <LtWacko [at] aol.com>
>To: LS  <lashdeep [at] yahoo.com>
>Cc: The FerrariList  <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
>Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 11:37:00  AM
>Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ferrari Digest, Vol 5, Issue 51
>
>
>In a  message dated 12/29/2006 8:03:11 A.M. Central Standard Time,
>ferrari-request [at] ferrarilist.com writes:
>
>5. The  750 V12 has  296 HP. The stock 540i V8 has 282 and my El Tweako
>factory  setup 290: 2% less power than the V12 and way less mass. The
>V8 likes revs and will imitate a V12 just fine at 3500 - 5500  RPM.
>Rev limiter is about 5300 in 1st, 6300 after that. I  suspect Koala
>installs the manual EPROMs.
>
>
>HP  doesn't tell the whole story.  Power curve baby!  750 will   walk a
740
>all
>day long from 50 MPH to limiter.  You will actually  outdrag  a 750
with a
>740
>off the line in distance.  To 60 MPH  in time is close, but  that is
because
>the 750 is charging hard  catching the 740 then blowing by it as  if
the guy
>in
>the 740 threw  out an anchor.  Yes, this is based on multiple  ACTUAL
runs
>side
>by side.  No magazine performance comparisons of  numbers.   NO
barstool
>racing.  You will feel like a little girl  when you  play with the big
boys
>at 80MPH
>plus.  I can't believe how long  I  have to wait to get to 130 MPH in
my
>740iL
>and yes, I do this on a  weekly  basis so I need it!  I was
disappointed from
>day  one.  All I could  afford at the time was a 740 and it had to be a
>steal
>at that and my 750 started getting some miles on it and  serious repair
>bills.
>If you can find  a quicker diff cheap and you  don't mind the lower HWY
MPG,
>it's well worth the  grin  factor.
>
>It's like the old S-Class argument between the S420 and the  S500.
S420
>owners wish they had the S500 and S500 owners never  looked back on the
>extra
>money they spent.
>
>Ain't no  replacement for displacement!
>
>Rodney
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--
Brian E. Buxton
President, Buxton Motorsports, Inc .
www.BuxtonMotorsports.com
(812) 476-2281 x 209
Member ThaList.com
Managing Partner, Private Label Livery Services
www.PrivateLabelLimo.com
President, Brian Buxton Enterprises, Inc.
Nationwide Enclosed Auto Transportation
www.BuxtonMotorsports.com/storage-transportation.php
Founder & Past President
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Re: BMW Mods/Forced Induction/Modern V8s...Re: FerrariDigest, Vol ...	<– Date –> <– Thread –>
From: LarryT (l02turnercomcast.net)
Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:43:18 -0800 (PST)