Ferrari Mailing List: Re: NFC, Looking for some Gun advice.

[BRIGANDBAR (BRIGANDBAR]

Dave:
 
My guess is that we will have to agree to the fact that our law enforcement  
and military experiences must be very different as we agree on very little 
when  it comes to the carrying of a firearm for defensive purposes except for 
the 
fact  that carrying one is adviseable and places one in a more advantageous  
circumstance than an unarmed individual in any confrontational or 
victimization  environment.
 
In my experience I can first say that if a firearm is too big and unweildy  
notwithstanding any permits or legal constraints an individual will simply  
neglect, or make a conscious decision not to carry it. No firearm, even one of  
perfect design and the highest qualithy, is of any value if it is left behind 
in  a gun safe when it is needed elsewhere. I hope that this is one point in 
which  you will concur.
 
My experience also teaches me that for the vast majority of permit holders  
who do carry their firearms on their person that individual is best advised to  
reserve its use for self-protection, and/or to obtain disengagement of 
another  armed party. Non-law enforcement individuals are not trained to, nor 
are 
they  protected by law when theyt "voluntarily" intervene in situations 
involving  third parties and they are not "duty-bound" to do so. Further, any 
individual  with a firearm becomes a target upon the arrival of law enforcement 
officers in  response to any incident report. This can become way too heated, 
and 
confused,  for that individual to depend upon shouting "permit holding citizen" 
to advise  the officer first on the scene, that is tough enough to do when you 
have a  badge, albeit it may say "Retired" on it in a community unless it is 
small  enough for virtually all law enforcement officers to know each other on 
 sight.
 
Finally, many of us who are no longer "duty bound" carry our firearms in an  
admittedly less than optimum manner, such as in an ankle holster in the summer 
 time when in soft clothes so "size matters". Personally, I've elected to 
move up  to a 9mm from a .380acp cartridge because I've been fortunate enough 
to 
own a  stainless steel, small frame, 9mm pistol which is virtually the same 
size as the  Walther PPK. I often don't wear a belt with blue jeans on the farm 
or in town  during the summer which eliminates most useful holsters as I'm not 
much on the  pancake style. Sometimes, though the through my thoughts on the 
matter may  baffle you, I simply carry an extremely small stainless steel 
"deringer-size"  revolver that has five rounds of .22 l.r. hollow point 
ammunition. Sub-optimal,  yes, but they fit into my lifestyle at the time and 
it is 
"better than nothing".  It is lprobably "difficult to hold and shoot 
accurately" 
but clearing the slide  is not an issue. And, should the need arise i might 
remind you of the number of  folks who are killed each year with .22 rimfire 
ammunition. Except on rare  occasions I don't live my life in the "Red Zone" 
anymore (and if such an  occasion present itself I'll take the precaution of 
carrying a suitable  firearm), in fact I spend most of it on the "white" side 
of the 
"Yellow Zone".  And, if i do come across a crime in progress with an armed 
offender my first  step will be to use my cell phone to call "911" from a 
position of concealment  and cover and to the greatest extent possible try to 
stay 
out of their way. It  is only in a "one on one" type confrontation with one, or 
perhaps more than one,  armed offender that I will "benefit" from carrying a 
concealed firearm and I  simply use a risk/reward algorithm to subconsciously 
determine which firearm  I'll choose to arm myself with on any given occasion.
 
One more point. Most of the time when I am on the farm, or in town I'm in  
one of my trucks each of which generally carry something like an AR-10 and a 12 
 
ga. shotgun, sometimes a .45-70 lever action rifle or in snake country my 
much  maligned (in your stated opinion) that Taurus "Judge" revolver, so my 
"C&C" 
 handgun won't be my only, or even my best available firearm.
 
One of my favorite volunteer instructors, of which I am another but not my  
favorite one, who teaches in the local police department (did I mention my wife 
 is the Chief of Police of that department) conceal and carry,  
self-awareness/self-defense course emphasizes the most important point in these 
 
discussions, choose a handgun that you will carry with you, on your person, at  
most if 
not all times, get comfortable with its means of operation, its strong  points 
and weak points, and become an accurate shot with that firearm. Then  
mentally prepare yourself for the responsibility of carrying a concealed 
firearm  and 
legally prepare yourself for the ramifications should you elect to use that  
firearm in the defense of others (as this consideration is virtually  
non-existent when it usage is to protect oneself and the legality of use by a  
survivor is always better than that of non-use by a wounded or deceased  
victim).
 
I always recommend that they get a copy of LtCol. Grossman's book (see an  
earlier posting) and read it when they can to gain perspective on the  
psychological and social implication of carrying and using a firearm under even 
 the 
most extraordinary circumstances.
 
All in all though, a citizen is better off armed with virtually any firearm  
with which they are familiar with and can operate accurately and successfully  
then unarmed because they left their firearm at home because it was too  
unwieldly, didn't go with their shoes, didn't fit under their suit or in their  
purse of any of an infinite number of reasons why C&C permit holders are  
unarmed at a "critical incident" moment. 
 
If you believe that you when you carry a firearm "it should be of  the 
largest caliber they can carry and use effectively" go for it. If you  believe 
that 
compact and subcompact (two of your three classes of handguns) are  
contraindicated for your students so advise them and insist that they carry 
that  
"largest caliber" firearm. I would be interested in knowning (and I doubt that 
I  
would have any way of obtaining the requisite data) just how many of your  
students spend what proportion of their "exposure time" unarmed for whatever  
reason makes it sub-optimal to carry that "largest caliber that they can carry  
and 
use effectively". Do all of the law enforcement officers that you know carry  
"the largest caliber they can carry and use effectively" when off-duty and on 
 family outings such as water skiing or taking their kids to an amusement 
park?  The ones that I know, including myself in that past life, do not carry 
"the  largest caliber they can carry and use effectively", in fact they usually 
carry  a smaller firearm, perhaps their own departmental issue "back up gun".
 
I don't know if you are (still?) a full time, sworn law enforcement  official 
at this time, but I am curious as to whether you always carry your  Glock 
pistol? Do you ever opt for a smaller (caliber and physical size) firearm  
because it is more suitable for the social circumstances that you find yourself 
 
participating in? Where do you store your firearms in your house and do you 
have  
a handgun, or handguns, located in various rooms of the house as a defense  
against home invasion? Do you own any of those third category "subcompact"  
firearms and if so what use do you have for them?
 
Inevitably we will each go about on our chosen path and hopefully the need  
will never arise to empirically verify which of our hypotheses is more correct  
in its applications.
 
Dr. Steve
 
Dr.  Stephen B. Spies, CES, CFI
Director, Forensic Sciences  Laboratory
Explosives Engineering Technologies

1964 Rolls Royce Silver  Cloud III.....1975 Pontiac Grandville 
1980 MB 450  SL............................1982 Rolls Royce Corniche DHC
1988 Rolls Royce  Silver Spur..........1994 F-350 PowerStroke Diesel 
1995 Ferrari 348  Spyder.................1996 Ford Bronco 
2000 Lincoln Town  Car....................2004 Ford Excursion
+ a
1985 MB 280GE Galedenwagen  for Explorations 
+ a
1976 HAHN- WARNER & SWASEY- DUPLEX DIVISION HOWE  APPARTUS. THE MODEL #R400 
FIRE TRUCK w/a 100' Tower System 
&
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