Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Engine Rebuild III

[LarryT (l02turner]

For some reason the below was attached as a TXT file when I sent it earlier 
today.  Here's it is again in case anyone dislikes opening unknown files - 
which is a good idea - Not trying to double tap anyone with 2 posts of the same 
thing ......

Hi Gang  -
    It looks like a great ZDDP choice!   The tech paper at 
http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief1%20-%20Introducing%20ZDDPlus.pdf has a 
excellent comment everyone should take notice of - "Today, ZDDP has been 
removed from practically all automobile engine oils, rendering them unsuitable 
for use with older engined with non-roller lifters.  While I think it's an 
exaggeration to say "ZDDP has been removed from practically all automobile 
engine oils" - because Oil Analysis shows the residual levels of Phos and Zinc 
while the M1 webpage tells us the levels when the oil is new.  But there is a 
definite advantage to adding ZDDP to insure the engine will last as long as 
possible.  (Cat or no cat)

    BTW, while adding ZDDP will increase engine life over stock SM type oil 
there's a downside to be aware of.    By adding the ZDDP you will decrease the 
lifespan of any cat. converters present.

    Cat Conv wear is not a problem for classic cars (pre-cat) but if you are 
adding ZDDP to a Cat equipped car to protect the Cams and lifters, don't forget 
the Cat Conv will have a shorter lifespan.

    I don't know how much cat conv's cost for a modern Ferrari  or Porsche but 
if you live in a emission inspection state it's something to consider.  From 
the report at the link Mr. Garven provided it looks like you can figure getting 
around 100K miles using modern SJ or SM type oils but if you use your sports 
car as a regular driver you could easily reach 100K pretty quickly.

Of course, an engine rebuild is probably many times more $$s than new cat/s but 
just remember there's a trade-off - like everything else.

Take care - 
LarryT
74 911 (no cats) 

OilAnalysis Time? 
Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters? 
www.youroil.net 




From: Robert W. Garven Jr. 
Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 11:51 PM
To: LarryT ; The FerrariList 
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III


Here is what I am going to use! 


http://www.zddplus.com/




Robert W. Garven Jr.
rgarven [at] gmail.com




 "The Ferrari is a dream - people dream of owning this special vehicle and for 
most people it will remain a dream apart from for those lucky few". Enzo Ferrari











On Nov 30, 2009, at 2:58 PM, LarryT wrote:


  For anyone unfamiliar with the ZDDP furor - take a quick read here 
  http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
  It is a very helpful article and you'll understand why it may be important 
  to add ZDDP to your engine oil.   An Oil Analysis can also help but I don't 
  want this to come across as a sales pitch.

  Good luck -
  LarryT

  OilAnalysis Time?
  Looking for Weber Parts or Porsche Posters?
  www.youroil.net



  --------------------------------------------------
  From: "Stephen Sherman" <sherman [at] wildblue.net>
  Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 11:07 AM
  To: "Larry Turner" <l02turner [at] comcast.net>
  Cc: <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
  Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III


    Has he mentioned ZDDP. Several years ago it was reduced to help cats last

    longer at the price of flat tappet engines FAIL.

    That why I changed to Valvolene Racing 20 w 50. Castrol came out with 

    Syntec

    for 'classic' but apparently there was not enough market and stopped 

    making

    it. Syntec is still on the shelves but the product for Classics is not. I

    talked to Castrol when it came out and was told to make sure it had the

    'Classic' on the label as there was old stock that did not and did not 

    have

    the extra ZDDP. A year ago it was on the close out shelf and I was told 

    that

    it was being discontinued.



    Stephen

    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: "Michael James" <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>

    To: "Stephen" <sherman [at] wildblue.net>

    Cc: <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>

    Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 9:21 AM

    Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III





    David recommends a heavier-weight synthetic.....I used 0-W-40 Mobil 1

    European Car formula with two bottles of either 10-W-40 or 20-W-50 thrown 

    in

    to add some additional 'weight' to the mix.....the overheating I've

    experienced broke-down the oil, and increased bearing wear....so, I have a

    lot of internal damage for only 36K on the odometer.





    --- On Thu, 11/26/09, JIM WILCOX <jimshadow [at] verizon.net> wrote:





    From: JIM WILCOX <jimshadow [at] verizon.net>

    Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III

    To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>

    Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com

    Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 5:57 PM





    I'd be curious to hear what oil David recommends in the 308.

    He is a good guy and has helped me out quite a bit with my GT4.



    JIM



    --- On Thu, 11/26/09, Tom Reynolds <kjtar [at] cox.net> wrote:





    From: Tom Reynolds <kjtar [at] cox.net>

    Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III

    To: "JIM" <jimshadow [at] verizon.net>

    Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>

    Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 6:11 PM





    Michael,

    What kind of oil were you using? How long between changes? What kind

    of driving did you usually do? What oil is he recommending for when the 

    car

    is back on the road again?

    Tom

    Tulsa



    ----- Original Message ----- 

    From: "Michael James" <cavallino_rapante [at] yahoo.com>

    To: <kjtar [at] cox.net>

    Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>

    Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 2:54 PM

    Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III





    My mechanic, David Feinberg, believes my choice in oil coupled with the 

    heat

    did some serious damage - the piston rings scoured the cylinder liners, 

    and

    vice-versa when the oil 'broke-down" from high-heat, and the bearings in 

    the

    motor are all SHOT. The Cams and Crankshaft were spared, but the bearing

    sets have risen in price over the years....and so have cylinder liners. I

    also burned-through a piston. I also have all of the engine gaskets to

    replace (a whole-set of engine gaskets are $1,800, which include the head

    gaskets). All 16 exhaust valves are destroyed, along with 9 intake

    valves.....the previous valve job managed to 'nick' all of the valves and

    corrupt their sealing properties, so my compression/leakdown numbers were

    horrible across the board. I suppose I should be lucky that the Block and

    Heads were spared, but the internal 'bits' that have been roasted over the

    years....crap!



    Anywho, we'll have to sit-down and review what the way-ahead looks like.



    M









    --- On Wed, 11/25/09, Martin Stark <MStark [at] Copper.net> wrote:





    From: Martin Stark <MStark [at] Copper.net>

    Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Engine Rebuild III

    To: "Michael" <Cavallino_Rapante [at] yahoo.com>

    Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>

    Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2009, 4:40 PM





    As Bill famously said, "I feel your pain." In my case a TR first gear

    repair, a crown gear carrier upgrade, and a ridiculously expensive

    throwout bearing replacement. Kind of like the restaurant price guide

    - $$$$$.



    Michael James wrote:





      Well, the good news is that the Block and Heads are NOT warped at all. In

    fact, we can re-use them with only minor machine work.



      And that's about the only good news I have......there was evidence of a

    previous valve-job done BADLY, and most all of the valves need 

    replacement,

    along with the valve guides. I also need one new piston, all new piston

    rings, and here's the kicker - all new nikasil cylinder liners. Ted 

    Rutlands

    was called, and he has NO QV engines 'on the shelf', so I'm stuck 

    rebuilding

    my own engine. The parts bill will be steep....



      M













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