Ferrari Mailing List: Re: High Capacity Magazine Firearms

[Martin Stark (MStark]

Carry an HK (any model) and you will never have a clearance issue.  I've 
fired upwards of 20,000 rounds
(think IPSC) through my several HK handguns and have yet to have a 
failure to feed or failure to go bang. The HK designers and engineers 
have figured it out.
HK UPS .45
HK UPS Tactical .45 with JPoint
HK USP Expert .45
HK USP 9 W/El cheapo laser
HK P7M8
HK SR9TC with SA Gen3

Dave Handa wrote:

> Actually any qualified SWAT officer should be well trained in one handed
> malfunction drills.  BUT, they may wish to go to the back up handgun because
> it is FASTER than doing the clearance drills one handed, not because they
> are incapable of performing them.
>
> QUOTE:
> "But, once again to get back to the crux of the matter, most of us are  
> generally civilians who carry a firearm for personal protection and should
> not  
> expect to be "duty bound" to face down armed adversaries. Your best backup
> weapon 
> is your cell phone, and your best tactic is to retreat whenever possible  to
>
> a safer location."
>
>
> This is good advice, and my recommendation as well, though I would consider
> the cell phone to by my PRIMARY self-defense weapon, not a back up.  Calling
> 911 and being a good witness is most often the best course of action.
> Avoidance should also be considered. Retreating is warranted, as long as it
> does not make you more vulnerable or weaken your defense to do so.  But we
> are talking about many possible scenarios, the above implies say, walking
> into the bank as an armed robber goes down, and what obligation you have to
> do something (you don't have to do a thing, and in fact I would turn around
> and walk or run right out).  But what about the mugger that sticks a knife
> in your face, or that of a loved one? Now YOU are in a lethal force
> situation, and must deal with it.
>
> Getting some quality training is always a good thing to consider,
> particularly in unarmed self-defense and pepperspray.  If the only
> option/training you have in your personal "tool box" is the gun, then pretty
> much all your solutions will probably include a gun...for better or worse.
>
> Dave
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: BRIGANDBAR [at] aol.com [mailto:BRIGANDBAR [at] aol.com] 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 1:47 PM
> To: dave [at] davehanda.com
> Cc: ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com
> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] High Capacity Magazine Firearms
>
>
> In a message dated 9/19/2006 2:17:27 P.M. Central Standard Time,  
> charles [at] carolina-sound.com writes:
>
> is there  any research to indicate having a backup for purposes other than 
> something  else to fire after your primary weapon is empty is  worthwhile?
>
>
>
> Charles:
>
> Not for civilians that I know of. If you are venturing into "Indian
> Country" 
> or anticipating "hostile action" I would suggest you bring along an  AR-10 
> with a 16" bbl. and several 30 rd. magazines. That is what I carry when I
> do 
> some hard core 4x4 back country exploring, but mostly because something like
> a 
> mountain lion or a bear might be offended by my presence and not allow me to
>
> do what I would do first in any case, leave him, and his home undisturbed.
> My  
> grandson has just reminded me that the Lone Ranger carries two guns, and I 
> guess  he is technically a civilian, so I guess he could be the exception
> that 
> proves  the rule. Other than that, one handgun is fine for me (but I'm too 
> cheap for  silver bullets <g>)
>
> Professionally, the reason for a (revolver) backup in tac ops is if you are
>
> injured in your hand and/or arm and cannot clear a malfunction or reload
> your 
> pistol or other automatic or semi-automatic firearm, to ensure that you
> have 
> access to a working firearm. Additionally, in a tac ops situation should
> you 
> drop your primary firearm or otherwise become disarmed you have access to a
>
> weapon to continue to fight.
>
> I can tell you, as an experienced Crisis and Hostage Negotiator, that it is
>
> highly unlikely that you will access your backup firearm if you are being
> held 
> hostage, and that a futile attempt to do so will endanger not only
> yourself, 
> but  any other hostages as well. Most agencies, military and Federal
> civilian 
> have  strict rules against surrendering your weapon under any circumstances 
> except  when disabled and thus unable to prevent it being taken away from
> you.  
> Personally, I can think of no circumstance that I would be better off giving
>
> up  my firearm to a third party than I would be resisting surrendering it to
>
> the  best of my ability.
>
> But, once again to get back to the crux of the matter, most of us are  
> generally civilians who carry a firearm for personal protection and should
> not  
> expect to be "duty bound" to face down armed adversaries. Your best backup
> weapon 
> is your cell phone, and your best tactic is to retreat whenever possible  to
>
> a safer location. I no longer live my life in the "Red Zone", do well to  
> function in the "Yellow Zone" except under certain circumstances and relax
> in  the 
> "Green" or "White" zones. Even when working I cannot remember needing  
> additional armament for personal protection.
>
> I'm looking forward to the examples that Brian will provide as to when a  
> backup firearm might be required. I may reevaluate my position should he  
> recognize some circumstance that I have missed, or we may simply agree to
> disagree.
>
> Of course, if you lose control of the situation your backup firearm may be  
> useful to your adversary.
>
> Dr. Steve
>
> Dr. Steve  
>
> 1964 Rolls  Royce Silver Cloud III    1975 Pontiac GV Conv.
> 1980 MB  450SL                 1982 RR  Corniche
> 1994 F-350 Powerstroke  4x4          1996  Bronco
> 2000 Lincoln Town  Car                   2004  Excursion
> 1995 Ferrari 348 Spyder
> + Audrey's 3x MB's
>
> Dr.  Stephen B. Spies, CES, CFI
> Director, Forensic Sciences  Laboratory
> Explosives Engineering Technologies
>
> Legal  Notice:
>
> This message does not constitute legal or other professional  advice, nor 
> does it create an Attorney/Client, or other confidential or  fiduciary 
> relationship between the sender and/or any other  party
>
> Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail (including  attachments) is covered by 
> the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U. S.  C., Sections 2510-2521,
> and 
> is intended only for the person or entity to which  it is addressed, and may
>
> contain confidential or privileged material. Any  unauthorized review, use, 
> disclosure, dissemination, copying, forwarding or  distribution is
> prohibited. 
> If you are not the intended recipient contact the  sender by reply e-mail
> and 
> destroy all copies of the original message. If you  are the intended
> recipient 
> but do not wish to receive communications through  this medium please so 
> advise the sender immediately.
>
> Electronic  Transmission Security Notice: E-mail transmission cannot be 
> guaranteed  to be secure or error-free. The sender does not accept liability
> for 
> any errors  or omissions in the contents of the message that arise as a
> result 
> of its  electronic (e-mail) transmission.
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/dave%40davehanda.com
>
> Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
> http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/mstark%40copper.net
>
> Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
>
>