Ferrari Mailing List

View Index by: Date - Thread - Author
Re: Rolling roads, was: Ferrari Sabotage?
From: ken rentiers (rentiersmac.com)
Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2007 07:44:34 -0700 (PDT) 
Rick and FList:

of course, as you no doubt know, this is not the first time the rolling roads have been sabotaged...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll

-ken-

On Jul 8, 2007, at 8:46 AM, Rick Lindsay wrote:

Indeed.  The entire 3-D solution is fascinating.  I've
modeled 2-D simple solutions (aircraft wing simulator)
and that eats most of a modest computer. The real 3-D
solution is just way cool.

rick

--- Pat Scopelliti <pscopell [at] stny.rr.com> wrote:

Ah, but you have ignored the interaction between the
air and the road.  On
the race track the air is not moving relative to the
road, and it is only
the car that is moving.  In a wind tunnel, the air
flow is used to simulate
the car moving through the air.  But, in a simple
(not rolling road tunnel)
the ground is also effectively moving at the same
speed as the car and that
is not real-life.

Pat

Pat Scopelliti
pscopell [at] stny.rr.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Lindsay [mailto:rolindsay [at] yahoo.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 8:50 PM
To: Pat Scopelliti
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Rolling roads, was: Ferrari Sabotage?

Hello wind tunnel chatters,
   Perhaps we're making an incorrect assumption.
Does
the rolling road have to run at the same speed as
the
airflow?  Perhaps not.  The biggest effect of the
tire
on an open wheel car is the cross-section area
presented to the air flow.  After that is the
distortion of the spinning wheel on downstream air
streamlines.
   Another point to consider:  With a rolling road
the
underbody aerodynamics can be studied better.  The
question I ponder is whether the effect is linear?
In
my work on compressional waves (sound) and shear
waves
(particle motion a right angles to the direction of
propagation), I have discovered that the equations
that describe the propagation of waves through
sediment (a.k.a. rock physics) are the same as the
equations for aerodynamics!  Strange that. Anyway,
there are MANY concepts that are highly nonlinear.
For example.  The velocity of sound changes with the
incompressibility and density of the medium
supporting
propagation.  The velocity also changes with the
frequency of the signal.  I don't call it sound now
because ultrasonics and ultra-low frequencies are
included.  To convert the velocities at ultrasonic
frequencies to those at say, 10 hertz, the math is
straight forward.  The biggest change ( ~5% ) occurs
between ultrasonic and about 15k Hz - the upper end
of
human hearing.  Below that, the velocity changes
very
little (fraction of a percent) all the way down to
almost zero.
   So, with all all this said, I wonder whether the
rolling road effect is most influential between 150
and 200 mph or is that a zone where almost no change
occurs.  How about between stand-still and 50mph?
Or
50mph and 250mph?  It could make HUGE differences in
the design, and therefore the cost of a rolling road
wind tunnel.
   Physics is fun.

regards,

rick

--- Pat Scopelliti <pscopell [at] stny.rr.com> wrote:

Just found this page showing a NASCAR car in a
rolling road wind tunnel.
Imagine that belt failing at 180 mph!



http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/nascar/haas-builds-rolling-road-wind- tunnel-252 
670.php

Pat

Pat Scopelliti
pscopell [at] stny.rr.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Ferrarisimo [at] hotmail.com
[mailto:ferrarisimo [at] hotmail.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 10:04 AM
To: Pat Scopelliti
Cc: The FerrariList
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ferrari Sabotage?

Just wondering. Don;t know much about wind
tunnels 
myself, but never
before heard of one failing - although it might
happen all the time.
Thought it strange that the failure was blamed for
so much of the
teams problems early in the season and now one of
the guys involved
in body design is suddenly cast as a "spy" - why
not 
saboteur?

Scottie


On Jul 7, 2007, at 9:51 AM, Tom Reynolds wrote:

Yes, I heard that comment about the Ferrari
logo,
Scotty and I 
thought both
thoughts, the "good for you, kid" and also "you
little snitch." 
But, when
you say "Also, does anyone else wonder if
sabotage
might have 
something to
do with the failure at the Ferrari
windtunnel???"
do you mean that 
the wind
tunnel failure might have been a part of the
alleged sabotage? 
Best regards,
Tom



From: "Ferrarisimo [at] hotmail.com"
<ferrarisimo [at] hotmail.com> 
To: "Tom Reynolds" <kjtar [at] cox.net>
Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ferrari Sabotage?


Did anyone else here the comment, during
Practice
2, that the case
began when a person working at a copy shop saw
the Ferrari logo on
the papers brought to him for duplication and
contacted the team.
Awesome. Some one needs to buy that lad a
pint.

I've heard McLaren's disavowal but can't help
but
wonder if the FIA
will be forced to take action against them (and
therefore Alonzo and
Hamilton) to take a strong stand against this
behavior. How could
they ever prove that the information did not
effect the development 
of their car or that no one else ever saw it.

Eagerly awaiting the results of the FIA
hearings.

Also, does anyone else wonder if sabotage might
have something to do 
with the failure at the Ferrari windtunnel???

Scottie


On Jul 7, 2007, at 8:50 AM, philville
dejazzd.com
wrote:


I can't help but wonder if this is due to
the
fact that many 
of us
   expect that this ( "crime of the century" )
is close to the norm. 

   Have a great week end, Phil



_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription
options, please visit:



http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/ferrarisimo% 
40hotmail.com

Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
http://www.BidNip.com/
and F1 Headlines
http://www.F1Headlines.com/




_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription
options, please visit:



http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/kjtar%40cox.net 

Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
http://www.BidNip.com/
and F1 Headlines
http://www.F1Headlines.com/


--
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.18.8/714
-
Release Date: 
3/8/07







_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription
options, 
please visit:


http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/pscopell% 40stny.rr.com 

Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
http://www.BidNip.com/
and F1 Headlines
http://www.F1Headlines.com/




_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription
options, 
please visit:


http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/rolindsay% 40yahoo.com 

Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
http://www.BidNip.com/
and F1 Headlines
http://www.F1Headlines.com/





_________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options, please visit:
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/rentiers% 40mail.com

Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
http://www.BidNip.com/
and F1 Headlines
http://www.F1Headlines.com/

Results generated by Tiger Technologies Web hosting using MHonArc.