Ferrari Mailing List: Re: Rolling roads, was: Ferrari Sabotage?

[Rick Lindsay (rolindsay]

Excellent reference!  I loved the rolling sidewalks
idea when I first read those books.  It brings to mind
the concept, "Speed doesn't kill.  Speed differential
kills!"

regards,
rick

--- ken rentiers <rentiers [at] mac.com> wrote:

> Rick and FList:
> 
> of course, as you no doubt  know, this is not the
> first time the  
> rolling roads have been sabotaged...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Roads_Must_Roll
> 
> -ken-
> 
> On Jul 8, 2007, at 8:46 AM, Rick Lindsay wrote:
> 
> > Indeed.  The entire 3-D solution is fascinating. 
> I've
> > modeled 2-D simple solutions (aircraft wing
> simulator)
> > and that eats most of a modest computer. The real
> 3-D
> > solution is just way cool.
> >
> > rick
> >
> > --- Pat Scopelliti <pscopell [at] stny.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Ah, but you have ignored the interaction between
> the
> >> air and the road.  On
> >> the race track the air is not moving relative to
> the
> >> road, and it is only
> >> the car that is moving.  In a wind tunnel, the
> air
> >> flow is used to simulate
> >> the car moving through the air.  But, in a simple
> >> (not rolling road tunnel)
> >> the ground is also effectively moving at the same
> >> speed as the car and that
> >> is not real-life.
> >>
> >> Pat
> >>
> >> Pat Scopelliti
> >> pscopell [at] stny.rr.com
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Rick Lindsay [mailto:rolindsay [at] yahoo.com]
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 8:50 PM
> >> To: Pat Scopelliti
> >> Cc: The FerrariList
> >> Subject: Rolling roads, was: Ferrari Sabotage?
> >>
> >> Hello wind tunnel chatters,
> >>    Perhaps we're making an incorrect assumption.
> >> Does
> >> the rolling road have to run at the same speed as
> >> the
> >> airflow?  Perhaps not.  The biggest effect of the
> >> tire
> >> on an open wheel car is the cross-section area
> >> presented to the air flow.  After that is the
> >> distortion of the spinning wheel on downstream
> air
> >> streamlines.
> >>    Another point to consider:  With a rolling
> road
> >> the
> >> underbody aerodynamics can be studied better. 
> The
> >> question I ponder is whether the effect is
> linear?
> >> In
> >> my work on compressional waves (sound) and shear
> >> waves
> >> (particle motion a right angles to the direction
> of
> >> propagation), I have discovered that the
> equations
> >> that describe the propagation of waves through
> >> sediment (a.k.a. rock physics) are the same as
> the
> >> equations for aerodynamics!  Strange that.
> Anyway,
> >> there are MANY concepts that are highly
> nonlinear.
> >> For example.  The velocity of sound changes with
> the
> >> incompressibility and density of the medium
> >> supporting
> >> propagation.  The velocity also changes with the
> >> frequency of the signal.  I don't call it sound
> now
> >> because ultrasonics and ultra-low frequencies are
> >> included.  To convert the velocities at
> ultrasonic
> >> frequencies to those at say, 10 hertz, the math
> is
> >> straight forward.  The biggest change ( ~5% )
> occurs
> >> between ultrasonic and about 15k Hz - the upper
> end
> >> of
> >> human hearing.  Below that, the velocity changes
> >> very
> >> little (fraction of a percent) all the way down
> to
> >> almost zero.
> >>    So, with all all this said, I wonder whether
> the
> >> rolling road effect is most influential between
> 150
> >> and 200 mph or is that a zone where almost no
> change
> >> occurs.  How about between stand-still and 50mph?
> >> Or
> >> 50mph and 250mph?  It could make HUGE differences
> in
> >> the design, and therefore the cost of a rolling
> road
> >> wind tunnel.
> >>    Physics is fun.
> >>
> >> regards,
> >>
> >> rick
> >>
> >> --- Pat Scopelliti <pscopell [at] stny.rr.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Just found this page showing a NASCAR car in a
> >>> rolling road wind tunnel.
> >>> Imagine that belt failing at 180 mph!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
http://www.jalopnik.com/cars/nascar/haas-builds-rolling-road-wind-
> 
> > tunnel-252
> >>> 670.php
> >>>
> >>> Pat
> >>>
> >>> Pat Scopelliti
> >>> pscopell [at] stny.rr.com
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: Ferrarisimo [at] hotmail.com
> >>> [mailto:ferrarisimo [at] hotmail.com]
> >>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 10:04 AM
> >>> To: Pat Scopelliti
> >>> Cc: The FerrariList
> >>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ferrari Sabotage?
> >>>
> >>> Just wondering.  Don;t know much about wind
> >> tunnels
> >>> myself, but never
> >>> before heard of one failing - although it might
> >>> happen all the time.
> >>> Thought it strange that the failure was blamed
> for
> >>> so much of the
> >>> teams problems early in the season and now one
> of
> >>> the guys involved
> >>> in body design is suddenly cast as a "spy" - why
> >> not
> >>> saboteur?
> >>>
> >>> Scottie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Jul 7, 2007, at 9:51 AM, Tom Reynolds wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Yes, I heard that comment about the Ferrari
> >> logo,
> >>> Scotty and I
> >>>> thought both
> >>>> thoughts, the "good for you, kid" and also "you
> >>> little snitch."
> >>>> But, when
> >>>> you say "Also, does anyone else wonder if
> >> sabotage
> >>> might have
> >>>> something to
> >>>> do with the failure at the Ferrari
> >> windtunnel???"
> >>> do you mean that
> >>>> the wind
> >>>> tunnel failure might have been a part of the
> >>> alleged sabotage?
> >>>> Best regards,
> >>>> Tom
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> From: "Ferrarisimo [at] hotmail.com"
> >>> <ferrarisimo [at] hotmail.com>
> >>>> To: "Tom Reynolds" <kjtar [at] cox.net>
> >>>> Cc: "The FerrariList" <ferrari [at] ferrarilist.com>
> >>>> Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2007 8:19 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Ferrari] Ferrari Sabotage?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Did anyone else here the comment, during
> >> Practice
> >>> 2, that the case
> >>>>> began when a person working at a copy shop saw
> >>> the Ferrari logo on
> >>>>> the papers brought to him for duplication and
> >>> contacted the team.
> >>>>> Awesome.  Some one needs to buy that lad a
> >> pint.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I've heard McLaren's disavowal but can't help
> >> but
> >>> wonder if the FIA
> >>>>> will be forced to take action against them
> (and
> >>> therefore Alonzo and
> >>>>> Hamilton) to take a strong stand against this
> >>> behavior.  How could
> >>>>> they ever prove that the information did not
> >>> effect the development
> >>>>> of their car or that no one else ever saw it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Eagerly awaiting the results of the FIA
> >> hearings.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Also, does anyone else wonder if sabotage
> might
> >>> have something to do
> >>>>> with the failure at the Ferrari windtunnel???
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Scottie
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Jul 7, 2007, at 8:50 AM, philville
> >> dejazzd.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    I can't help but wonder if this is due to
> >> the
> >>> fact that many
> >>>>>> of us
> >>>>>>    expect that this ( "crime of the century"
> )
> >>> is close to the norm.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    Have a great week end, Phil
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> >>>>>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription
> >>> options, please visit:
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/ferrarisimo%
> >>>>>> 40hotmail.com
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
> >>>>>> http://www.BidNip.com/
> >>>>>> and F1 Headlines
> >>>>>> http://www.F1Headlines.com/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> >>>>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription
> >>> options, please visit:
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/kjtar%40cox.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
> >>>>> http://www.BidNip.com/
> >>>>> and F1 Headlines
> >>>>> http://www.F1Headlines.com/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -- 
> >>>>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> >>>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>>> Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database:
> 268.18.8/714
> >> -
> >>> Release Date:
> >>>>> 3/8/07
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> >>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription
> >> options,
> >>> please visit:
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/pscopell%
> 
> > 40stny.rr.com
> >>>
> >>> Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
> >>> http://www.BidNip.com/
> >>> and F1 Headlines
> >>> http://www.F1Headlines.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> >>> To unsubscribe or modify your subscription
> >> options,
> >>> please visit:
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/rolindsay%
> 
> > 40yahoo.com
> >>>
> >>> Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
> >>> http://www.BidNip.com/
> >>> and F1 Headlines
> >>> http://www.F1Headlines.com/
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
_________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe or modify your subscription
> options, please visit:
> >
>
http://lists.ferrarilist.com/mailman/options/ferrari/rentiers%
> 
> > 40mail.com
> >
> > Sponsored by BidNip.com eBay Auction Sniper
> > http://www.BidNip.com/
> > and F1 Headlines
> > http://www.F1Headlines.com/
> 
>